Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[ChiChris]

Jaguars new/old cars are completely different from said Cobras.

[fordracing65]

Did I hear $500k to $1million for these cars..., I guess if you have money who cares...

[REAL 1]

Here is my criticism and further issues with these cars and this project.

Let me see if I have this straight shall we?

1. There is a mountain of rare NOS Cobra parts consisting of Shelby "gold" and unobtainium treasure that will is expected to add tremendous value to this new "completion" car.

2. This mountain of Shelby "gold" is owned privately.

3. There has been no cataloging/inventory of these "precocious" parts or tagging them in any way. No documentation of them in the slightest by any recognized expert certifying or verifying the genuiness of what's on that inventory list and just how many of each exist.

4. These "Completion" cars are being sold privately or by the Shelby Trust? SAI is not involved in the sale? Kirkham is completing and sending to DeBeneste to finalize? Hell, if it's a complete car and I can't drive it anyway I want it sold to me through SAI just like in 1965 not DeBeneste or the Trust. The Trust or DeBeneste wasn't selling Cobras in 1965. Were they?

5. Just who is doing the stamping on the chassis? Kirkham or DeBeneste on behalf of SAI or are they stamped at SAI? When are they stamped? After all the so called pieces are bolted on or have they been set aside and pre-stamped?

6. The "Completion" Cobras is supposedly fitted with the "holy grail" of original NOS parts but there is not one photo, not one document evidencing the build, not one list or manifest of parts / pieces, nuts and bolts put into the car and taken from the master log or inventory. Do I have one nut that is an original nut or two? Are all the lines original or just the brake lines? How many original clamps are in the car? Do I have that original dip stick? or Lucas rearview or is it a repro or other? What about my half shafts? Do I have one original or two? Where is my parts build list?

7. This completion car is sent back to Debeneste to "complete" yet he paints it an off color of Guardsman Blue? What happened to originality? Yet we have a crowd standing around with glazed eyes gawking at this car without one shred of proof as to what's in it.

8. What we have here is a Continuation Series Shelby stuffed with a lot of original parts and accessories. That's it. How many and which parts and pieces are original? ...I guess we will just have to take DeBeneste's word for it.

9. Seems like the "Completion" Cobras will vary in well...completeness. Hell, CSX 4206 is likely to just as "Complete" as some of the completion series. However, who will know since there is no master inventory or tracking system of these parts and into what cars they go.

10. No matter how they try my bet is that none of these "completion" Cobras will ever be 100% complete. Were original rivets used, are all the nuts, bolts and screws original too? How about diff coolers? were they used? Are they original? Fuel pumps? SWs or something else...the list is extensive as we all know. Fatally, we already know the Chassis is not original or the body.

CSX3000 Vins belong to chassis built in 1960s not new chassis and bodies onto which old parts are bolted. This a canard of the highest order. Apocryphal. Seems to me they are going to be selling "Air cars" with CSX 3000 vins. What documentation will be provided as to what is original and what's not that was bolted to the car for which they likely will want over $500,000.00 for.

Better their money than mine.

As they say on Shark tank....I'm out.

If they want to build historically dead nuts accurate Cobras that's great and a cool thing but they should not be labeled completion Cobras. A more appropriate name would be CSX 4000H for "Historic"

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

5. Just who is doing the stamping on the chassis? Kirkham or DeBeneste on behalf of SAI or are they stamped at SAI? When are they stamped? After all the so called pieces are bolted on or have they been set aside and pre-stamped?

I asked same question some time ago on this thread. Look back and see response.

[REAL 1]

Here is my criticism and further issues with these cars and this project.

Let me see if I have this straight shall we?

1. There is a mountain of rare NOS Cobra parts consisting of Shelby "gold" and unobtainium treasure that will or is expected to add tremendous value to this new "completion" car series.

2. This mountain of Shelby "gold" is owned privately.

3. As I understand there has been absolutely no cataloging/inventory of these "precocious" parts or tagging them in any way. Is there any documentation of them in the slightest by any recognized expert certifying or verifying the genuiness of what's on that inventory list and just how many of each exist? Please enlighten me on this.

4. These "Completion" Cobras I understand now are being sold privately or by the Shelby Trust. Is this accurate? SAI is not involved in the sale? Kirkham is completing and sending to DeBeneste to finalize? Hell, if it's a complete car and I can't drive it anyway I want it sold to me through SAI just like in 1965 not DeBeneste or the Trust. The Trust or DeBeneste wasn't selling Cobras in 1965. Were they?

5. Just who is doing the stamping on the chassis? Kirkham or DeBeneste on behalf of SAI or are they stamped at SAI? When are they stamped? Are they stamped after all the so called pieces are bolted on or have they been set aside and pre-stamped?

6. The "Completion" Cobras are supposedly to be fitted with the "holy grail" of original NOS parts but there is not one photo that we have seen of the build, not one document evidencing the build of the first one. Not one list or manifest of parts / pieces, nuts and bolts put into the car and taken from the master log or inventory that we know of. Does this first car have one nut that is an original nut or two? What will future cars have? Are all the lines original or just the brake lines? What will future cars have? How many original clamps are in the first car? How many will future cars have? Do I have that original dip stick? Show me where it came from the original inventory or a someone signing off and takng responsibility to verify what I have is original parts. Is that a Lucas rearview or is it a repro or other? Proof please. What about my half shafts? Do I have one original or two after that first car? Where is my parts build list? Very simply, where is the inventory of parts drawn from and build sheet?

7. This first completion car is sent back to Debeneste to "complete" yet he paints it an off color of Guardsman Blue? Yikes. What happened to originality? Despite all the above we have a crowd standing around with glazed eyes gawking at this car without one shred of proof as to what's in it. Sheesh.

8. What we have here is a Continuation Series Shelby stuffed with a lot of original parts and accessories. That's it. Again, how many and which parts and pieces are original? ...I guess we will just have to take DeBeneste's word for it and as to the rest too without that master certified inventory and build sheet.

9. Seems like the "Completion" Cobras will vary in well...completeness too. Hell, CSX 4206 is likely to just as "Complete" as some of the completion series Cobras. However, who will know unless there is a master inventory or tracking system of these parts and into what cars they go.

10. No matter how they try my bet is that none of these "completion" Cobras will ever be 100% complete. Were original rivets used, are all the nuts, bolts and screws original too? How about diff coolers? were they used? Are they original? Fuel pumps? SWs or something else, all the correct tags and lables used, correct horn etc, etc......the list is extensive as we all know but.... fatally we already know the Chassis is not original or the body.

CSX3000 Vins belong to chassis built in 1960s not new chassis and bodies onto which old parts are bolted. Period. This is IMHO is a canard of the highest order. Apocryphal. Seems to me they are going to be selling "Air cars" with CSX 3000 vins for which they likely will want over $500,000.00 for.

Better their money than mine.

As they say on Shark tank....I'm out.

If they want to build historically dead nuts accurate Cobras that's great and a cool thing but they should not be labeled "completion" Cobras. A more appropriate name would be CSX ""4000H" for "Historic"

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Here is my criticism and further issues with these cars and this project.

Let me see if I have this straight shall we?

Do I have a Lucas rearview or is it a repro or other?

Answer: There will be no rearview mirror installed, because "What's a behind me is not important!"

Speaking of which, I wonder when the Shelby Cobra "Gumball Rally" Limited Edition will be coming out? Anyone?

Seriously, I should get paid for these ideas.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Phill Pollard

Is this the same Mike McClusky we used to race Quarter Midgets with, out of Baylands in San Jose CA?

I lost touch with him a few years ago after dropping off of the QMA.com web forums. Does anyone know how I can contact him (if it is indeed, him)?

TIA,
Phill

I doubt it. Mike has been in Torrance, Ca. since the 60's.

David

[Bernica]

What I think you are looking for Evan is "facts in evidence", right?
I'm no lawyer but I hear it from lawyers all the time!

[Jamo]

Evan...only you could figure out a way to have a duplicate post with someone else's post in between them.

[RodKnock]

Just checked, next year in 2016 will be the 40th Anniversary of the movie's (Gumball Rally) release (1976).

It's golden. I'm lining up already to buy one. Maybe we can get Gary Busey to come to the unveiling?

Unfortunately, Michael Sarrazin and Raul Julia can't be there.

[David Kirkham]

Evan,

I admire lawyers like you who are careful to get every nut, bolt, and screw correct. I truly do. That's why you pay for good counsel. I have used good lawyers and they are invaluable. I've also had the unfortunate experience of running into a few (well, more than a few) bad ones. The ones who nail down all the details are invaluable.

Alas, I doubt (but don't know) bolt counters are the target clientele. I'm sure they will personally work out the details to everyone's satisfaction and then go from there.

Bill's word is gold. I have done, and continue to do, large deals on nothing more than a phone call or a handshake.

David


ps. Bill painted the car the proper/original color (which I personally don't like but was right in this instance). Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post. It's Mike who alters colors when customers request it.

EDIT!

I just got off the phone with the guys at DenBeste and they confirmed we did NOT make the car in the press release. The car we made hasn't been painted yet.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Great link! Like I said...I have been too busy to even follow what happened after it left here.

Not my favorite color of blue...but it is Guardsman Blue. It is what they were back in the day and I do like the color for that reason. Mike always cheats the color a bit and makes it a bit more blue and less green. He does fabulous work.

David

Evan,

I should have been clearer in my earlier post. When I said "Not my favorite color of blue...but it is Guardsman Blue," I was referring to the "Great link" of the article on the car. Bill painted it the correct Guardsman blue. That said...there really isn't a correct Guardsman Blue. Painters back in the day were (and still are are) notorious for mixing up their own version of the color. If one toner was low I'm pretty sure Shelby painted away anyway.

EDIT!

I just got off the phone with the guys at DenBeste and they confirmed we did NOT make the car in the press release. The car we made hasn't been painted yet.

David

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Evan,

I admire lawyers like you who are careful to get every nut, bolt, and screw correct. I truly do. That's why you pay for good counsel. I have used good lawyers and they are invaluable. I've also had the unfortunate experience of running into a few (well, more than a few) bad ones. The ones who nail down all the details are invaluable.

Ditto!

[Bernica]

The best lawyers I have had were the biggest PIA and relentless! Rode me like a rented mule 24/7 and as David says...invaluable!

[REAL 1]

David: Please don't take my criticisms as directed at you or Kirkham. They are not. Whoever's project this is and is selling them is responsible in my book to inventory the valuable items being sold and provide build sheets. While I am not arguing or questioning whether Bill's word is good or not, if I am spending upwards of $500,000.00 for what is supposed to be in these cars I want more than a handshake and a smile.

I still object (for whatever that's worth) to the use of the term "completion series" and using the CSX 3000 vin for these cars.

It would also be appreciated if the build sheet of one of these cars that is finished as close to original spec as is possible with what is available could be supplied to us on this site. It would likely be appreciated by all of us who value and appreciate historical accuracy and are always striving to improve what we have to that level. It would be a valuable reference tool cost nothing to provide it to us here provided it is ever created if it does not already exist for this project.

[Nedsel]

[quote=REAL 1;1349110]

"I still object (for whatever that's worth) to the use of the term "completion series" and using the CSX 3000 vin for these cars."

You may want to read over the press release again. The one I saw did not use the term "completion" as had been used previously, but instead used the term "competition." Unless there was a second press release, that's what the DenBeste group is calling these new cars.

And as for the few original parts that they hope to magically convince buyers there are enough of for every car, did you mean to label them "precocious" i.e. the human quality of exhibiting great ability at an early age, or simply "precious" i.e. of great value?

For what it's worth, I, too, disagree with the premise of calling these CSX 3000-series Cobras. They simply aren't.

[4pipes]

Just take a deep breath and relax. It doesn't matter what they're called. Think of them as an accurate scale model at 1:1. I'm sure most of us have some scale model die cast cars. They're beautiful and fun to look at, but you can't drive them. Who cars what people pay for them or how the registry recognizes them.......life is very short, enjoy and drive what you like, these cars will not affect your life in any measurable way.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

"I still object (for whatever that's worth) to the use of the term "completion series" and using the CSX 3000 vin for these cars."

You may want to read over the press release again. The one I saw did not use the term "completion" as had been used previously, but instead used the term "competition." Unless there was a second press release, that's what the DenBeste group is calling these new cars.

And as for the few original parts that they hope to magically convince buyers there are enough of for every car, did you mean to label them "precocious" i.e. the human quality of exhibiting great ability at an early age, or simply "precious" i.e. of great value?

For what it's worth, I, too, disagree with the premise of calling these CSX 3000-series Cobras. They simply aren't.

I was precocious. The original rare parts are precious. My bad.

I thought they were calling them "completion". If it's "competition" are they accurate to that configuration? I thought they were SC configurations?...

[Nedsel]

Accurate? Who knows. Here's some copy from their press release; you decide what's accurate. And where did the idea of Guardsman Blue come from? They say it's LeMans Blue, which was not a 60's color, even though they boast of period-correct details.

" The first of the 'Sanction II' 427 Competition Cobra's to be completed (CSX3065) is a spectacular 1965 Shelby Cobra 427 aluminum body clad in Le Mans Blue paint with Wimbledon White Le Mans stripes and black interior. The period correct details are carried throughout the vehicle from the engine to the race ready suspension. Each of the 34 remaining 'Sanction II' 427 Cobras come with an MSO signed by Carroll Shelby listing it as a 1965 Shelby Cobra. This series of the Cobra will also be submitted and listed in the Shelby American Automobile Club Registry. Contact DenBeste Motorsports for information on purchasing this limited edition piece of American automotive racing history."

And folks, for what it's worth, the plural of Cobra Is COBRAS. It's not Cobra's!

[LMH]

So we have a name for this series: "Sanction II 427 Cobras".

I don't like calling them 30XX series cars either.
Larry