Misconceptions

[Tommy]

I was at a local cruise-in Saturday when I met a nice guy who showed up in a Superformance Cobra replica. He described it as a 15 year old car that he had acquired from the original owner about four months ago. The original owner seldom drove the car, preferring to trailer it to car shows, so it was in very good condition despite its age. He described the drivetrain as a 427 Cleveland backed by a Tremec 5-speed..

The owner was a very talkative guy who plainly enjoyed telling people about his new toy. And he had apparently heard a lot from the original owner as well as others. Unfortunately, he was either misinformed or misunderstood some of what he had learned. Without overtly declaring his brand of replica was better than others, here are a few of his beliefs:
- His Superformance was not a “kit car” because it came complete from the factory with engine, transmission, wheels and tires.
- His Superformance was the only brand approved by Carroll Shelby because it was a nuts and bolts accurate reproduction of the original cars from the 1960s.

I tried to explain that all Cobra replicas are “kit cars” in the sense that federal law prohibits manufacturers from selling complete cars that do not comply with all contemporary safety rules, so even the most complete kits lack engines, transmissions, wheels and tires. I also expressed the opinion that Shelby’s company would give its blessing to any brand or product that paid enough.

My point in sharing this conversation is to express the opinion that many of the misconceptions about Cobra replicas are being fed by the comments of replica owners (and sellers) who want the uninformed public to think that their particular replica is for some reason better than most of the others. In the early days of Cobra replicas (i.e., 1980s), when a Cobra shaped car of any kind, real or replica, was rare, I suspect there was an element of pride in the hearts of those who had the courage, skill and determination to build a replica. But as the number of replicas has boomed, the aura of skill required to build one has diminished. It began to look like anyone with a garage and some cash could do it.

When I first joined this forum in 2002, it felt like most of the people who posted regularly knew something about how cars work. People understood things like brake pedal ratios, corner weights and the dangers of working around a car with quick jacks. But the success of companies like Superformance and Shelby has changed the demographic of Cobra replica owners. I sense that many new owners know little more about their cars than the typical owner of a new Corvette or Mustang. For them there is comfort in believing that their cars were built by a factory worker rather than some unknown guy in his home garage. And that comfort has led them to believe that their cars are inherently superior to other brands.

I suspect it is human nature for most of us to think that what we have is better than what you have, and I doubt this post will change any of that. But I will encourage all to keep in mind that anytime you start believing your car is better than all others because of its brand, someone will come along to prove you wrong. Somewhere out there is a home built Cobra replica we can all laugh at, but there is also one better than any mass produced car.

[CHRIS POTTER]

Well said, Tommy! I never brag about my replica. Some people like it, some are critical. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I don't try to talk them out of it. I did the best job I could, and bought what I could afford at that time. I enjoy driving it, and that is the sole reason I built it. I would love a higher end car, but, the one I have now is more than adequate for me.

[Ron61]

Tommy,

I went to a small car show near here last Saturday and drove my Factory Five Coupe. There were a lot of cars and motorcycles and many of the people came over to look the Coupe over. Of course the Is it real question came up and I told them what I always do. It is a highly modified kit car that has been raced some and is not a show car. That really seemed to sit well with many of them and they were a good group to talk with. We only have one Coupe around here and will gave one GT-40 when a friend of mine finishes his, so they get quite a bit of attention.

Ron

[mrmustang]

Tommy,

I know of a particular PA based CSX4000 series owner (beautiful build) who repeatedly tells people the following:

1: The car was built in 1965
2: Carroll Shelby personally built this car himself, not for himself, but personally built it
3: All others are "nothing but V8 powered"kit cars built on VW chassis's"

Nobody will even bother to correct him, as he is a blowhard, and anyone that spends more than 2 minutes with him realizes it immediately.


Most people see through this particular owners claims, but I'll bet 10% do not.

[trularin]

Tommy - excellent post.

Tru

[66gtk]

There is a CSX4000 car in town - owner tells everybody it's the real deal. Shelby's autograph is on the glovebox (not a very good one) and he tells everybody the car was in Carroll's personal collection. Unfortunately, I think this type of misinformation is more common than it's not these days. Especially when it comes to CSX continuation cars and Superformance cars. The licensing and the name really confuse people when it comes to examining real facts.

If I can ever get my hands on a true CSX3000 car to photograph I have a great project in mind that will help put to rest much of this. Anybody know of one in the Minneapolis area?

[madmaxx]

Live and let live......

[Thor maine]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Tommy,

I know of a particular PA based CSX4000 series owner (beautiful build) who repeatedly tells people the following:

1: The car was built in 1965
2: Carroll Shelby personally built this car himself, not for himself, but personally built it
3: All others are "nothing but V8 powered"kit cars built on VW chassis's"

Nobody will even bother to correct him, as he is a blowhard, and anyone that spends more than 2 minutes with him realizes it immediately.


Most people see through this particular owners claims, but I'll bet 10% do not.

That guy sounds like a REAL-1 one of a kind.

[tortuga]

I own a SPF and have become intimately familiar with its inner workings and am a bit ambivalent about the issue. No its definitely a reproduction, but its a reproduction that paid particular attention to 'getting it right': In my search for a cobra i looked at some real nice diversions from authentic, and frankly some real junk (scary junk with sketchy build quality and some weird details)...

I have met a few SPF owners who couldn't tell a master cylinder from a mater card, so i get that comment, but overall in my search for a turn-key car i decided that the SPF was a good fit, the Kirkhams are hands down the best, but the SPFs are right up there.

My hat is all the way off to those ingenious guys who fab up a nice replica in there garages, working out details and in most cases improving on the original. They have a machine that is part of them that those of us who buy turn -key cars will never ever have...

All in all at car meets, its not who has a better Cobra, its all about the camaraderie of all having some semblance of a Cobra, and I bet the crummiest looking car in the line will have a detail that will draw the crowd away from the polished kirkham with the SOHC 429...

Its not a competition.

[keezling]

If I was going to by a complete finished car from a private party as opposed to building one, I'd be more confident with a factory built car than a home built anytime. (If I could afford it)

[mikeinatlanta]

I've only seen a couple of cobras at local shows and neither of them will talk about their cars beyond claiming them to be "real". Neither is even a CSX of any type. It's a shame because I go to the shows to see and talk cars, not argue over who's reproduction is less fake. Of all the kit cars, the vw based ones are some of my favorites. Brings back memories.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

That guy sounds like a REAL-1 one of a kind.

The owner in question does not live in NJ, but PA.

I've seen Evan at the shows in NJ, he is not who I am speaking of. Evan's car is gorgeous, a true work of art (even though the hood rivets are still done in an incorrect pattern ). Evan is also a good guy in person, nothing like his online persona, unless of course you are on the other side of the table from him in court

Originally Posted by tortuga

but its a reproduction that paid particular attention to 'getting it right'.

So your car has a round tube frame, correct body vs a new CSX4000/6000 series, and a proper engine compartment and trunk layout?


Bill S.

[Maricopa]

So your car has a round tube frame, correct body vs a new CSX4000/6000 series, and a proper engine compartment and trunk layout?

Pretty much.

My favorite total douchebag was the guy that brought his (very nice) vintage Hi-Tech to the FFR gathering in Vegas back in '03. He not only parked near the FFRs but spent the day running them down in comparison to his car. Meanwhile there was a beautiful brushed finish Kirkham that respectfully parked across the street from the main body of FFRs and was a great guy to talk to...and a lot of FFR folks ventured over to oogle it.

[itstock]

I don't know how some of you can get so worked up one way or the other over these cars. There are most certainly better kit/replica manufacturers than others, whether real or perceived, and there is also a huge difference for many reasons in purchasing a true KIT car verses a turn key minus car.

[olddog]

If the blow hard is ignorant ( or low IQ) and truly believes what is spewing forth, I generally feel sorry for them. It must be hard going through life with such a handicap.

If the blow hard knows full well the truth and spews lies for their ego, or entertainment they are despicable. If they do it to dupe someone into paying too much for a car, they are a despicable thief. It is a shame that laws protect these people.

[1985 CCX]

CSX2000 is the original.
The rest are replicas.

Let the games begin.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Tommy

I was at a local cruise-in Saturday when I met a nice guy who showed up in a Superformance Cobra replica. He described it as a 15 year old car that he had acquired from the original owner about four months ago. The original owner seldom drove the car, preferring to trailer it to car shows, so it was in very good condition despite its age. He described the drivetrain as a 427 Cleveland backed by a Tremec 5-speed..

The owner was a very talkative guy who plainly enjoyed telling people about his new toy. And he had apparently heard a lot from the original owner as well as others. Unfortunately, he was either misinformed or misunderstood some of what he had learned. Without overtly declaring his brand of replica was better than others, here are a few of his beliefs:
- His Superformance was not a “kit car” because it came complete from the factory with engine, transmission, wheels and tires.
- His Superformance was the only brand approved by Carroll Shelby because it was a nuts and bolts accurate reproduction of the original cars from the 1960s.

I tried to explain that all Cobra replicas are “kit cars” in the sense that federal law prohibits manufacturers from selling complete cars that do not comply with all contemporary safety rules, so even the most complete kits lack engines, transmissions, wheels and tires. I also expressed the opinion that Shelby’s company would give its blessing to any brand or product that paid enough.

My point in sharing this conversation is to express the opinion that many of the misconceptions about Cobra replicas are being fed by the comments of replica owners (and sellers) who want the uninformed public to think that their particular replica is for some reason better than most of the others. In the early days of Cobra replicas (i.e., 1980s), when a Cobra shaped car of any kind, real or replica, was rare, I suspect there was an element of pride in the hearts of those who had the courage, skill and determination to build a replica. But as the number of replicas has boomed, the aura of skill required to build one has diminished. It began to look like anyone with a garage and some cash could do it.

When I first joined this forum in 2002, it felt like most of the people who posted regularly knew something about how cars work. People understood things like brake pedal ratios, corner weights and the dangers of working around a car with quick jacks. But the success of companies like Superformance and Shelby has changed the demographic of Cobra replica owners. I sense that many new owners know little more about their cars than the typical owner of a new Corvette or Mustang. For them there is comfort in believing that their cars were built by a factory worker rather than some unknown guy in his home garage. And that comfort has led them to believe that their cars are inherently superior to other brands.

I suspect it is human nature for most of us to think that what we have is better than what you have, and I doubt this post will change any of that. But I will encourage all to keep in mind that anytime you start believing your car is better than all others because of its brand, someone will come along to prove you wrong. Somewhere out there is a home built Cobra replica we can all laugh at, but there is also one better than any mass produced car.

The public is by and large ignorant about Cobras and replicas thereof compared to the knowledge base of many here (except those that still think Chevy power belongs in a Cobra replica). The owner of the Spf that Tommy is talking about is obviously still ignorant in many respects and hasn't educated himself on Cobras or replicas or their history. He sounds like he has a superficial knowledge base as does much of the public.

What is "better" is subject to many interpretations. What does "better" mean? You tell me what "better" means in any particular case I tell you whether I agree your car fits that definition. Is it based on objective factors or subjective and/or intangible factors?

"Kit" has a different definitions. Are you using the dictionary definition or commonly understood meaning of Kit or SAAC's definition? If original cars were being made today in the same fashion they would be "kits" according to some definitions.

Bottom line. There is nothing wrong with thinking your car is better than others. You obviously would have bought something else had you thought otherwise finances permitting. Even if finances don't permit some cars are better than others depending on the measuring stick being used. Sometimes it is better because of brand because that's what's important to you.

You can think your car is better than mine. Chances are I think mine is better than yours. Thinking your car is better is a different issue than mis-representing what it is.

Where's the issue here?

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

CSX2000 is the original.
The rest are replicas.

Let the games begin.

That argument can definitely be made.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Maricopa

[i]... Meanwhile there was a beautiful brushed finish Kirkham that respectfully parked across the street from the main body of FFRs and was a great guy to talk to...and a lot of FFR folks ventured over to oogle it.

He parked across the street so as not to be associated with the FFRs. As FFRs owners crossed the street to oogle his upscale ride, he achieved the same thing as the Hi-Tech owner, only you guys did all the talking

[mdross1]

Well said Tommy, it took me a while after discovering this site to understand all the negativity towards certain kits. Thankfully on the right track knowing how some people think no need to waste time trying to change that.