Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
Posts: 3,897
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I don't need to do anything about it. Tell us what the issue was that was being decided in that opinion and the holding?
Your grasp of jurisprudence is about as complete as your car. Normally I would help out on this issue but with you I'll just keep letting you publicly display you ignorance. it's just too much fun.
Furthermore where did that particular opinion state Continuation Shelby Cobras were not real Shelby Cobras? Please point out where the court ruled on that issue or even said it in passing? Come put that powdered wig back on and edumacate us.
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Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
Posts: 3,897
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim7139
Quite possibly. Your's still not so much......sorry.
FWIW, you have clearly woven a rather stretched series of assumtions. It is somewhat the collector car equivilent of the old adage "If we had some eggs, we could have some ham and eggs......if we had some ham".
Quite entertaining, however.
This is truly rich.
So Tim please explain. Love to learn.
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... Furthermore where did that particular opinion state Continuation Shelby Cobras were not real Shelby Cobras? ...
You're missing the point as I knew you would, I'll dumb it down for you then, that ruling says -
Continuations have no acquired distinctiveness from all the other replicas, nor does it have acquired distinctiveness to be considered part of the original cobras of the 60's.
Therefore, BDR = ERA = Continuation = SPF = FFR = EM = Insert Replica Mfg Here = Kit Car
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF 2932 with 438 Lykins Motorsports engine. Previous owner of FFR 5452.
Posts: 2,616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Garage
You're missing the point as I knew you would, I'll dumb it down for you then, that ruling says -
Continuations have no acquired distinctiveness from all the other replicas, nor does it have acquired distinctiveness to be considered part of the original cobras of the 60's.
Therefore, BDR = ERA = Continuation = SPF = FFR = EM = Insert Replica Mfg Here = Kit Car
... you lose
You can bet your last shekel that Not-Real1 is preparing his rebuttal to this one (as we wait with baited breath) and it will include at least one character assault and probably a dozen misrepresentations.
You're shaking the very foundation that supports him.
Gotta get another bag of popcorn. It's going to get good.
What's really amazing and fun is went someone asks about the car and I can tell them that I built it.... they look at me (a year over 30) and say something such as "Wow! You built that yourself?!?". At that point.. it does not matter if there was a kit, a mechanic or a guardian angle... I just shared a little bit of American spirit and happy fumes.
Cobra Make, Engine: All original, with Chevy engine since 1964
Posts: 996
Not Ranked
The Scientist in me compels me to add my viewpoints to this discussion.
There is always lot's of back and forth; between replica owners and CSX owners, and between CSX/MKIV/SPF/K/FFR/ERA owners and the general public/car show spectators; and it all orbits around the term "real".
Real? Really? How many times has the word "real" been tossed out in this thread alone?
"Is it real?"
When this question is asked, the inquirer is actually asking: "Is your car an authentic, genuine 1962-1967 Shelby Cobra with an aluminum body, and a CSX2x or CSX3x serial number?"
- However, most people are not adroit enough about Cobras (nor the english language, for that matter) to frame their question in such non-ambiguous terms (This aspect of humanity's linguistic laziness, or ignorance, is why Lawyers thrive... )
Because let's face it: If they are asking, then what they are probably wondering about is:
A) Whether your car has a racing or other significant historical background to it, and
B) They are probably concurrently wondering if you happen to be one of those mythical "rich people", who live in some alternate dimension where spending 400k+ dollars on an automobile is as "normal" as running down to the local Home Depot to purchase a new lawn mower is, for them...
To the pragmatic question "Is your Shelby Cobra real?", there is only one valid binary response: Yes, or No.... It either has a CSX2x/CSX3x serial number, or it doesn't...
Or, it could have a COB or COX serial number and be rightly called an "AC Cobra"
It all boils down to questions of authenticity, and genuine-ness.
I just wanted to throw my 2 cents out there about the term "real" being used to differentiate something that ALL of our cars qualify as... They're all real.
Are they all Genuine? Sure - Some are Genuine and authentic 1960-something Shelby Cobras, a few are "asterisked" as Shelby "Continuation" cars, which still makes them "genuine" as Shelby's, but still not nearly as "authentic" as a CSX2x or CSX3x car; some cars are genuine COB/COX AC Cobras, some are genuine AC/Autokraft Mark IV's (I concur that the case could be made that the AC/Autokraft Mark IV is also a replica, since it exhibits the body contours that were designed into the "original" Cobras by Shelby, not by AC)
All the rest are genuine "Kit Cars" (Sorry to offend all you Aluminum Kirkham guys, and ditto to all you "Carrol Shelby endorsed" SPF guys- Your cars are kits, according to the US EPA and the legal system... )
The Blowhards will argue about Shelby endorsements, fiberglass versus aluminum bodies , round tube versus square tube, and all other manner of "Blah Blah Blah" in an attempt to alter your OBSERVATION of what their car REALLY is... It's still a kit.
Kit Car: - An incomplete, or partially assembled automotive chassis & body assembly, lacking a powertrain, and unable to leave the factory of manufacture under it's own power; and therefore not illustrative of the term: "Automobile"
Whether your Kit car left it's factory as a "complete rolling assembly", or whether it arrived at your house as boxes of parts- It was incomplete until someone installed a powertrain, wired it up, and make it go "vroom" for the first time.
Carrol Shelby's endorsement of your car does not make it any less of a kit - Not a single genuine, authentic Shelby Cobra was ever built in either Utah, or South Africa.
Ahhhh... and about that term: "Kit car" - We all know that in the actual world, many people at car shows lean on that term as a perjorative, as if your car were sitting on a plywood and 2x4 "chassis", and could come apart into a heap of scrap at any moment, and that you, as the owner of such obviously synthetic, Cobra wannabe garbage, are clearly a 2nd-rate Poser.
I refuse to descend into discussions born out of hubristic class-segregation and who's better than whom, based on the cars that they own
Or, maybe they toss it about as if your car is a "counterfeit" Shelby Cobra (a viewpoint not legally shared by the US Patent and Trademark Office, since the matter was legally discussed, and legally settled, in 2010; and Shelby, unfortunately, lost) - See the excerpt of the legal ruling in the posts above.
When people ask me "Is it a kit?" My canned response is "It's a Classic Roadsters car, yes" and if they are interested, I then take the opportunity to explain the dimensional differences, the chassis engineering differences, and why the deeper foot-wells, and the lower cost of ownership, appeal to me, etc...
So, you can have your "reality" (as defined by Shelby, and the US legal system) - But only as long as you respect my right to exist in my reality, where I enjoy my fake, fiberglass, 2nd rate, middle class, wannabe poser car, in peace...
You can bet your last shekel that Not-Real1 is preparing his rebuttal to this one (as we wait with baited breath) and it will include at least one character assault and probably a dozen misrepresentations.
You're shaking the very foundation that supports him.
Gotta get another bag of popcorn. It's going to get good.
Easy when the foundation supports a house of cards
Last edited by Joe's Garage; 09-21-2015 at 11:34 AM..
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by moore_rb
To the pragmatic question "Is your Shelby Cobra real?", there is only one valid binary response: Yes, or No.... It either has a CSX2x/CSX3x serial number, or it doesn't...
A year ago I would totally agree. But that logic was just recently messed up with the announcement of the "new" CSX3x cars coming out from DenBeste and Kirkham effforts. It just adds to the ever-rolling controversial debate.
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All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
My point in sharing this conversation is to express the opinion that many of the misconceptions about Cobra replicas are being fed by the comments of replica owners (and sellers) who want the uninformed public to think that their particular replica is for some reason better than most of the others.
Well, let's see. This was the opening post (part of it, declaring, "My point in sharing this...").
Actually, you're wrong, and if you had read the opening post yourself it would appear you are intentionally twisting the truth. This twisting of the truth on the meaning of the opening post indicates a credibility issue with your posts, real_1.
CSX2000 is the original.
The rest are replicas.
Let the games begin.
I have no idea what is to discuss for 7 pages after this true statement!
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FF5 Daytona Coupe 347/TKO/IRS Homage CSX2299 Viking Blue - sold
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Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
Posts: 3,897
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Garage
You're missing the point as I knew you would, I'll dumb it down for you then, that ruling says -
Continuations have no acquired distinctiveness from all the other replicas, nor does it have acquired distinctiveness to be considered part of the original cobras of the 60's.
Therefore, BDR = ERA = Continuation = SPF = FFR = EM = Insert Replica Mfg Here = Kit Car
... you lose
Wow! You actually got sorta close.... but no cigar. I'm impressed though that you even got that close.
The essence of the ruling was that Cobras/Continuation Cobras or Shelby replicas of the original series have lost their distinctiveness in body shape which was the issue in that decision dealing with the shape/trade dress....
Thus we have the following noted by the court:
quite another to assert that purchasers and potential
purchasers view Cobra continuations or replicas, sold
primarily as kits, which employ the Cobra 427 S/C Design as
coming from a single source.....
Shelby lost his effort to stop other companies from making copies of the Cobra shape which by necessity included the original shape. The issue was shape/trade dress protection which required establishment of "acquired distinctiveness" as to the shape. Since ol' Shel sat on his ass for 30 years while companies prodigiously popped out fakes of his Shelby Cobra it was now too late to complain that the shape belonged to him.
Ergo, we have the following statement by the court....
The fact that Cobra replicas,
sold primarily as kits, which employ the 427 S/C Design,
have been sold by numerous third parties for more than
three decades, including between 2002 and 2009, precludes
us from drawing that conclusion. Accordingly, we find
applicant’s evidence based on media coverage of Mr. Shelby
and all of the Cobras not probative of the issue of
acquired distinctivenesss."
That's the story.
In fact, the courts protected the trade mark aspect of Shelby's claim and it is was ruled that the only company that can legally call or label their product a Cobra or a Shelby Cobra is Shelby American.
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
Posts: 3,897
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous Doug
Actually, you're wrong, and if you had read the opening post yourself it would appear you are intentionally twisting the truth. This twisting of the truth on the meaning of the opening post indicates a credibility issue with your posts, real_1.
You're dismissed.
DD
Now your dismissing me? By whose authority?
Ok. Just to prove that you should be "dismissing" yourself here you go, right from the OP:
"I suspect it is human nature for most of us to think that what we have is better than what you have, and I doubt this post will change any of that. But I will encourage all to keep in mind that anytime you start believing your car is better than all others because of its brand, someone will come along to prove you wrong. Somewhere out there is a home built Cobra replica we can all laugh at, but there is also one better than any mass produced car."
And....
"My point in sharing this conversation is to express the opinion that many of the misconceptions about Cobra replicas are being fed by the comments of replica owners (and sellers) who want the uninformed public to think that their particular replica is for some reason better than most of the others".
Please dismiss yourself now. You can check back with me periodically. I let you know when you can come back in and play.
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Do you really think that anyone who actually owns a CSX2000 or CSX3000 that was built by Shelby back in the early 1960's really wants to count you and your CSX4000 as a member of their exclusive Cobra ownership club?
I'm sure you'll say "Yes, of course!" However, my question is posed rhetorically to you; the answer really needs to come from those owners themselves.
Friggin' blow-hard. You'll let me know when I can come back and play? Dude, keep playing with yourself, I'm horrified and moving on.
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
Posts: 3,897
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous Doug
Okay, Real_1, let me ask you a question:
Do you really think that anyone who actually owns a CSX2000 or CSX3000 that was built by Shelby back in the early 1960's really wants to count you and your CSX4000 as a member of their exclusive Cobra ownership club?
I'm sure you'll say "Yes, of course!" However, my question is posed rhetorically to you; the answer really needs to come from those owners themselves.
Friggin' blow-hard. You'll let me know when I can come back and play? Dude, keep playing with yourself, I'm horrified and moving on.
My work here is done.
Keep it real,
DD
Your horrified! Are you going to scream like a girl too?
You?... the one who "dismissed" me that now has his panties all in bunch because you were clearly wrong and proved so. More peanut gallery richness.
As far as what owners of original Cobras think or don't think I couldn't care less. I'm not asking for their permission, seeking and in fact and don't need it. I'm in fact not asking to be in their exclusive club.
You obviously are "out to sea" on this issue.
Run along and don't come back now.
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Normally I would help out on this issue but with you I'll just keep letting you publicly display you ignorance.
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