Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[Thor maine]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Yes, you needed that one to try and extricate yourself from having stepped in it.

As always you read into things way to much and see what you want to see.

To bad you didn't read the previous thread on the issue or if you did didn't absorb what was being said. Larry and I actually wound up agreeing. I understood clearly what he was saying above you obviously did not. Here, follow along....AC did make some changes in the Ace chassis and body design prior to Shelby arriving on the scene. The basic car was there in recognizable basic "Cobra" form and shape at the very beginning. Yes, Alan Turner was responsible for that. He was the in house engineer. Like any manufacturer AC was trying to improve it's chassis each year for its customer base. However, it wasn't a Cobra yet. That took a lot of feed back from testing and development at SAI. AC made a lot of changes as directed and requested by SAI to make the little AC Ace (which previously only looked like a "Cobra") into a "Cobra" chassis and some further body revisions that was manufactured by AC with these changes for the "Cobra".

As to AC competing with a car at Le Mans, tell me was that a pre-Shelby developed chassis or post? Please let us know when you find the answer.

As to clearing the dance floor for me. You should. You obviously derive most of your info from internet articles and rely on them way too much instead of published treatises and books written by knowledgeable and respected authors like Legate, etc.... This reflects in the lack of depth of your knowledge... but stick around, despite stepping on your own toes often you will eventually learn something. Example, you should copy the above paragraph for future reference.

As to Tony's sig, Tony hasn't had a Continuation Cobra for a number of years and most vets here know that. Only a newbie would jump on it like you.

BTW still waiting for the pics of that chassis sitting on the floor. Does it even replicate the Tojeiro design? Post up!!!

InFletcher: Yeah, ain't that a scream.

XacK: You believed that? Stop being so gullible son. However, if hypothetically Rolex started to sell their watches in Kit form and you bought one ...would it be a REAL rolex? Careful how you answer.

Thor: I'm fascinated. How did you arrive at the 1/3 formulation?

ASO544: I think glass chassis CSX cars are manufactured in South Africa. I'm not sure about HST anymore. Stopped following it.
Aluminum Shelbys are another story.

Real-1, 1/3 for all to ponder. If Harley-Davidson went out of business and forty years later a member of the Davidson family started a motorcycle company and made a almost exact copy of a bike that was made forty years ago, would you say that motorcycle is a authentic, real, genuine Harley Davidson??? Or would you say that it was 1/2 a authentic, real, genuine Harley Davidson??? Same goes for say Smith & Wesson, if it was just Smith made a copy of the Model 29 , would it still make Dirty Harry's day??? It would still be a fantastic weapon but it would still only be half of what Smith & Wesson was. A Modern day Shelby Cobra is a fantastic car, highest standard but it still is just a replica brought to market by only 1/3 of the company's who made the original (lighting strike) in the 1960's. It is not even a continuation for that same reason, it is something else. So it is a 1/3 authentic, real replica Shelby Cobra kit car. This case is closed.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by mdross1

... I'm sure most would not care to hear about my authentic antique 2 cylinder John Deere tractors.

I'd like to hear more (but in a different topic). I grew up on a farm and learned to drive a tractor when I was 5 or 6 (a Ford N1). I think I was 7 when I disc'd my first corn field.

[trularin]

So this thread seems to have gone into the "everything is a replica".

It is the matrix...here Neo, take this pill.

So, as I read the salutations I note what they say - Very interesting.

Tru

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by trularin

So this thread seems to have gone into the "everything is a replica".
Tru

Yes, everything is replica, except for the Cobras built in the 1960's. That's been my belief since Day 1.

Shelby Cobras built in 1995 and thereafter are "genuine" or "true" replicas, but they're the only ones that can legally be called Shelby Cobras.

[Tim7139]

Well hell, as long as we got to tractors, anybody have any old, I mean old, motorcycles?

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Yea, agree but I like some of the simpler models. Really want to get a square or rectangular face model.

You like that shape, you should take a serious look at some of the LeCoultre's, particularly the reverso. For years I wore a Reverso Sun Moon which was a great watch, very classy, understated, with a bulletproof in house movement, crystal back. Now, a Franck Muller is my everyday watch. Just a straight 2852 on a strap, but it looks nice and works with a suit and tie.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Yes, everything is replica, except for the Cobras built in the 1960's. That's been my belief since Day 1.

Shelby Cobras built in 1995 and thereafter are "genuine" or "true" replicas, but they're the only ones that can legally be called Shelby Cobras.

The World Registry explains it very clearly and logically. Your "position" is close but not entirely consistent with the Registry.

It is somewhat confusing based on history and current facts and does need to be explained to the unfamiliar or those lacking information but it's easy to clarify and explain.

It's simple to me. It's a genuine Shelby Cobra. All the analysis of how long SAI was out of business, their suppliers etc. replica, kit etc... does not change a thing. Original Shelby? No. No one is pretending it is. Genuine Shelby Cobra? Assatutly. A Continuation series.

And yes Thor, if Harley went out of business and then rose again to make the same bike it would undeniably be a real Harley but not one of the originals manufactured before they folded. Are the new Indians not real Indians? If Patek Phllip started making the original Nautilus model again would it not be a real Patek? Regardless of whether it replicates an original model or is a totally new model it's a real Indian or Patek. Is that not self evident?

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

I'm sure history will repeat itself, it always does. In the meantime, several years ago I was on the hunt for a TAG Heuer Kirium Professional 200M with a beige face (not white). I know they made it ('70s era) because I saw one. Looked hi and lo but never found one.

TimeZone : Sales Corner » FS: TAG Heuer Kirium Professional 200M White Face

Edit: Beige face with that specific hour hand shape.

Wow...I don't think I've ever seen such a thing. Good looking series TAG did there. I have a 4000 from that time period...smaller than the diver model you're referencing but a nice chrono...my wife wears it now since wimmins watches have gotten bigger as well (she likes looking cool with a chrono at the Monterey Historics...likes to time me on how long I'm in the bathroom).

[REAL 1]

Recommendations as to where to buy a Ulysis Nardin in the Carribean?

[JoeT]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

Real-1, 1/3 for all to ponder. If Harley-Davidson went out of business and forty years later a member of the Davidson family started a motorcycle company and made a almost exact copy of a bike that was made forty years ago, would you say that motorcycle is a authentic, real, genuine Harley Davidson??? Or would you say that it was 1/2 a authentic, real, genuine Harley Davidson???

Indian is a great example of this. 1901-1953 Indians are the Indian motorcycles people think of when they are talking about the brand

In '55 they became Royal Enfields with an Indian name tag

in the late 60's to late 70's Clymer was importing them, mostly mini bikes

some guy owned the name from late 70's - late 90's. I'm not sure if they ever produced a bike for market

in 99-'03 CMC was producing Harley knock offs with an indian nametag

05?-11 an English company was making more Harley knock offs

Almost (I'm sure someone owns one and thinks differently)no one thinks of bikes made from 55-'11 as "real Indians"

Jump ahead to 2013 and Indian is owned by Polaris, and they're making GREAT Bikes under that brand name.

But to side with Real1, these Polaris built Indians seem to be considered "real" but they are certainly not being considered original. I wonder if somewhere on an Indian Forum people are having this same debate

[DanEC]

My God - this thread is like a psychotic episode. How many split personalities can a degenerate thread have? Replicas, watches, tractors - and I only read the first and last pages.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Wow...I don't think I've ever seen such a thing. Good looking series TAG did there. I have a 4000 from that time period...smaller than the diver model you're referencing but a nice chrono...my wife wears it now since wimmins watches have gotten bigger as well (she likes looking cool with a chrono at the Monterey Historics...likes to time me on how long I'm in the bathroom).

As you get older that time is going to get longer and more frequent
Tag also did the 1500 and 2000 series which are very similar, I think what I saw was a very specific year/model/size that had that beige face.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Recommendations as to where to buy a Ulysis Nardin in the Carribean?

Who better to ask than your old pal Buzz?

[JoeT]

real & original


not real and not original (CMC version)


current, real? continuation? but not original

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

... It's simple to me. It's a genuine Shelby Cobra ...

The problem is the use of the word "genuine" without the word replica included somewhere in that description as it implies originality just like "real" or "REAL 1".
Synonyms (genuine): authentic, real, actual, original, bona fide, true, veritable; attested, undisputed; the real McCoy, honest-to-goodness, honest-to-God, the real thing etc.

[Jamo]

Yup...stories.



Obviously McQueen wanted to wear a cool watch like Siffert and the other guys when he was chopping the top off a perfectly good GT 40 and mounting the great grandfather of GoPros for some track footage, so several watches were brought to the set for the on-screen drivers to wear, and he grabbed a Monaco.

Today's models are dressed in Gulf colors or white dials/subdials and all kinds of other motifs. This was just one of the Heuer dress models. Seemed huge when I got it...pre-Panerai.

I'm sorta like the guy in the old milk commercial trying to say "Aaron Burr"...when I put LeMans on, I wear this, Apollo 13 and its the Speedy, Sahara and it's the Doxa, etc.

Wife thinks I'm nuts...that's ok (I am).

Took that pic with this...before digital, this was my small carry camera. Film was asspensive, and even more asspensive to process (only place was in New Jersey) but by golly you could blow it up big...perfect for top secret documents or spy satellite imagery.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

The World Registry explains it very clearly and logically. Your "position" is close but not entirely consistent with the Registry.

My position doesn't have to agree with SAAC's official position. Ned Scudder's position doesn't have to agree with SAAC's official position either. But, official positions change over time, just ask any politician (Jamo, sorry for bringing that word into my post, but no specifics) or even the public at large.

If you look back to page 6 of this thread Ned "liked" a comment from Joe's Garage, which was this:

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

The only revision I would like to see is "... limit the SAAC registry to cars from the 60's that were actually built then ..."

Figuring out new ways to partition the various "classes" and including them is just another update to what already exists, still makes the registry a fat catch-all Ford/replica car mag.

That speaks volumes to me.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

The problem is the use of the word "genuine" unless immediately followed by replica as it implies originality just like "real" or "REAL 1".
Synonyms (genuine): authentic, real, actual, original, bona fide, true, veritable; attested, undisputed; the real McCoy, honest-to-goodness, honest-to-God, the real thing etc.

True. That is a problem with perception. Merely the fact that using the word real may imply something or not depending on what is being asked or merely being stated factually doesn't change what it is. So all depends on what your definition of "real" is. If your definition and pool of candidates is limited to '62 to '68 the Continuation Shelby's are out.

If your definition includes originals and continuation Shelby's as does mine and the Registryi they're in but you should provide the clarification to those that inquire what generation the car belongs to. There is no doubt I own an undisputed, bona fide, authentic, true etc Shelby Cobra. Can't be disputed. Period. I justKe clear what generation or series it belongs to. Easy.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

As you get older that time is going to get longer and more frequent
Tag also did the 1500 and 2000 series which are very similar, I think what I saw was a very specific year/model/size that had that beige face.

A few years ago we had arrived in Paris on the fast train from London. I was using a cane because of a slightly bum knee, but more for effect so we could board flights early, jump to the front of the lines, etc. I can act "old man pain" real damn good (trust me, when you travel...take a cane).

Anyway...the French care about handicapped folks better than anyone. we went downstairs to the underground to look for restrooms. Wife had to wait in line with a coin to use a typical public restroom. Attendants saw the cane and led me to the high holy of public restrooms...only for the handicapped. A private sweet essentially. Wooden furniture, etc. the throne was wonderful...adjustable backrest with a table next to it with a collection of magazines...even some flowers. Nice prints of Paris landmarks on the walls, etc. It was about that time of day, so by god I took my time away from the hustle-bustle of train station crowds. I wished I could've ordered some coffee and some pastry, but oh well.

By the time I came out, I was met with one of those "looks." She had damn near gotten arrested...tried to take a picture of the line she was in and the attendants and an underground cop gave her some words that she didn't understand until she looked at a sign they were pointing at that she finally figured out (little pic of a camera with a red line through it) meant no photograph due to privacy concerns.

LMFAO...until I saw that "look" again.

[Joe's Garage]

duplicate