Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Paul F

Dearest Evan,

It brings great joy to me on this fine day that you and I are in full agreement that your most-excellent car is indeed a 100% genuine Shelby American Cobra.

I agree that no one who is knowledgeable in the field of Cobras would be misled in regards to your fine automobile's lineage. They would understand the distinction between the CSX4xxx and CSX3xxx series. However, a person not knowledgeable in the field of Cobras would misconstrue a license plate or a statement that said it is a real one. While such a statement may be true in one context, it is misleading in the context of the question being asked.

Of course, your ClubCobra moniker also brings one to engage you in conversation on these points.

As to bitterness, quite the contrary. I am always pleased to see that there are those that have the where-with-all to spend money on such luxury items. Of particular delight is to see a Cobra crammed with a cammer. Then there is the unique case of the million dollar billet Kirkham. Wonderful stuff.

My real interest is a 1959-1961 Corvette. But alas, I have five friends with that very car. Their concerns of damage and other concerns are at such a level that they do not drive their cars. I felt that I would be no different. I wanted a car I would drive, not look at. So I bought a cheap Cobra so that I would have no concerns in this regard. To date, that has been the case.

Kindest Regards,
Paul F

Paul: Your consideration and acknowledgment is most appreciated. Thank you for acknowledging my car is indeed a 100% genuine Shelby Cobra.

Yes, some may construe my plate (REAL 427) as intimating my car is of original origin but the word "Continuation" wouldn't fit when I applied for vanity plates. But my plate does factually truthfully state what the car is and in fact what my engine is, which is a genuine '65 427 SO. While it is hard to explain the distinction between original and Continuation while behind the wheel while the car is in motion to other motorists who are behind me, nevertheless when inquires are made while the car is stopped I do make clear it is a Continuation Series Cobra whenever possible. I am proud of the Continuation series moniker and have no need to pretend it is an original. I love my car.

While my plate moniker may confuse other motorists as what generation my Shelby belongs to, your plate moniker in fact totally misleads them as to what your car in fact is. Your plate moniker could clearly be argued as far more objectionable I'm afraid than my plate moniker which is truthful and accurate and merely requires a simple clarification when asked. Your assertion is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black except in this case the kettle isn't black but the pot is. But, alas I agree, its all in fun so no real harm no real foul. Just make a simple observation.

Your desire for what I'll say is an "inexpensive" car (as opposed to "cheap" car as you said) for fear that there are those here that like to take things I say out of context is completely understandable and reasonable. This apparently is your criteria and based on that criteria makes your car "better" for you, does it not? I too worry from time to time about driving very expensive vehicles and also worry about the little old lady in the Buick. Absolutely.

Important part is to respect others and what they own and promote the hobby and the Cobra as it is in jeopardy of being lost to future generations based on waning interest of the upcoming generations.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I'm pissed. I just noticed that the side badge on my Cobra says "Shelby 427 S/C" and my chassis identification says "Shelby American Inc." and my dash plaque from the Shelby American attached to the car says "Shelby Cobra".

I've been duped now that you guys have explained I don't really have a Shelby Cobra.

Does anyone know a good lawyer? I've been had.




BTW Shelby aluminum roller sells for quite a bit more than Kirkhams and incorporate different suspension. Last I checked a Shelby alloy roller is about 1 to 1 1/2 years out and costs $160K for the just the roller. The 50th anniversary aluminum rollers sold I believer for $180K.

Kirkham rollers are $99K last I checked. Shelby Glass rollers are still $20K to $30k more.

I can't speak for the cheaper Shelby alloy replica, but the 50th Anniversary Shelby is ALL Kirkham per a posting by David K. Please don't pass along bad information to the public.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Again, Rodknock you are taking snipets out of context but I'lll let you keep doing that if it makes you feel better. Like someone here said if you squint hard enough I guess it says what you would like it to say rather than what it does say when you read it in context and full.

Nope not out of context. Right there in the Registry and I guarantee it was written that way, with references to a Shelby CSX4000 as a "true replica" and "Cobra-like," for obvious reasons. Because it is.

Actually, I think you have to analyze everything all together to understand what was written by the volunteers at SAAC. Why write it like that in the 1st place? Because it is what it is. A genuine Shelby Cobra replica.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

BTW Shelby aluminum roller sells for quite a bit more than Kirkhams and incorporate different suspension. Last I checked a Shelby alloy roller is about 1 to 1 1/2 years out and costs $160K for the just the roller. The 50th anniversary aluminum rollers sold I believer for $180K.

Kirkham rollers are $99K last I checked. Shelby Glass rollers are still $20K to $30k more.

All true, but I believe "4pipes" was referring to completed used Shelbys and Kirkhams and I agree. eBay and CobraCountry have shown the difference between the asking prices of the two alloy cars to be roughly 20,000. That margin of the alloy rollers appears to dissipate when the two cars are sold used.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

While it is hard to explain the distinction between original and Continuation while behind the wheel while the car is in motion to other motorists who are behind me...

Kindly, and if I may humbly point out - It really isn't.
A simple "NO" dispels any questions or illusions to the question "Is it real?"
While a "factual" response, would have everyone answering "YES it is!" as in, well you're NOT imagining it... the "truth" is, it aint real.

So lets just get real, and please, don't muddle the TRUTH with your silly facts...

Originally Posted by REAL 1

which is a genuine '65 427 SO.

Because now when you "claim" your engine to be "genuine" I find it hard to believe... even if you say its "FACT", because I know how you've potentially mislead those before me on your quest to define your car.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I am proud of the Continuation series moniker and have no need to pretend it is an original. I love my car.

...and truly, that's all that matters! I'm truly happy for you!

Originally Posted by REAL 1

your plate moniker in fact totally misleads them as to what your car in fact is. Your plate moniker could clearly be argued as far more objectionable

Except for one SMALL thing - NO-ONE ESLE is trying to pass there's off as the TRUE thing!

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I'm afraid than my plate moniker which is truthful and accurate and merely requires a simple clarification when asked.

Evan - problem is, even you'd agree "you don't know, what you don't know" and Joe public ie: 99.9% are unaware of the cobra landscape. How would they know it "needs" further clarification?


So in conclusion - the truth is you own a Cobra by Shelby, BUT NO - IT aint any more real than mine or the next guys...

Enjoy your beast!

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

...
Important part is to respect others and what they own and promote the hobby and the Cobra as it is in jeopardy of being lost to future generations based on waning interest of the upcoming generations.

Maybe you are S L O W L Y coming around. There is no "wheat" or "chaff" with any of these 2nd gen replicas. Just pick a recognized supplier and you'll get a good one.

If you mean it you'll apologize for making such an insulting comment to all the non-CSX owners earlier, you denigrated them more than once on that. No, I don't mean you trying to minimize what you said by suggesting others may think a continuation is chaff based on their criteria, that's just a back peddle cop-out. A sincere apology.

[Joe's Garage]

I'll beat Jamo to the punch.

Romain Jerome Titanic DNA Tourbillon, $319,000 retail



From what I've read it's not even water proof!

[Xack]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I'm pissed. I just noticed that the side badge on my Cobra says "Shelby 427 S/C" and my chassis identification says "Shelby American Inc." and my dash plaque from the Shelby American attached to the car says "Shelby Cobra".

I've been duped now that you guys have explained I don't really have a Shelby Cobra.

Does anyone know a good lawyer? I've been had.




BTW Shelby aluminum roller sells for quite a bit more than Kirkhams and incorporate different suspension. Last I checked a Shelby alloy roller is about 1 to 1 1/2 years out and costs $160K for the just the roller. The 50th anniversary aluminum rollers sold I believer for $180K.

Kirkham rollers are $99K last I checked. Shelby Glass rollers are still $20K to $30k more.

Mr. Real1, Just because it costs more does not make it worth more. If you want to justify what you paid, good luck. Nobody here owns that responsibility to you. Channel your inner P.T. Barnum. Feel good about what you paid for it and be OK with it. Please do not feel the need to enforce that on everyone else. Go drive your very expensive car and just feel good. That's what its all about.

[buddyg]

99.9% of the public will see the plate Real1 and think it's an original Cobra. Real and Original are the same to them.

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

While my plate moniker may confuse other motorists as what generation my Shelby belongs to, your plate moniker in fact totally misleads them as to what your car in fact is. Your plate moniker could clearly be argued as far more objectionable I'm afraid than my plate moniker which is truthful and accurate and merely requires a simple clarification when asked. Your assertion is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black except in this case the kettle isn't black but the pot is. But, alas I agree, its all in fun so no real harm no real foul. Just make a simple observation.

Kind Evan,

I'm sorry to have misled you. I was having a guffaw with you that having badges with the name Shelby are easy to acquire. I should have had the decency to have put a laugh emoticon to indicate the ruse. Regarding the plate, I meant the manufacturing plate, not the license plate.

I don't have a vanity plate nor do I have a badge with the word Shelby on it. That would be a deception that would not reflect well on me. I have a common issue plate.

Wishing you a pleasant night,
Paul F

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Xack

Mr. Real1, Just because it costs more does not make it worth more. If you want to justify what you paid, good luck. Nobody here owns that responsibility to you. Channel your inner P.T. Barnum. Feel good about what you paid for it and be OK with it. Please do not feel the need to enforce that on everyone else. Go drive your very expensive car and just feel good. That's what its all about.

Well, no matter what you think, the evidence is clear that Shelby cars sell for more than the others. But of course you will subscribe to the conspiracy theory that all of the Barrett Jackson auctions are rigged.

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by buddyg

99.9% of the public will see the plate Real1 and think it's an original Cobra. Real and Original are the same to them.

See, ALMOSTREAL1, he said it in just one sentence. It really is just that simple.
Well, to the rest of us it is.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

I'll beat Jamo to the punch.

Romain Jerome Titanic DNA Tourbillon, $319,000 retail



From what I've read it's not even water proof!

Damn! Well, I guess for that kind of money, it had beTter make a splash.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

... Important part is to respect others and what they own and promote the hobby and the Cobra as it is in jeopardy of being lost to future generations based on waning interest of the upcoming generations.

There is no "wheat" or "chaff" with any of these 2nd gen replicas. Just pick a recognized supplier and you'll get a good one.

Now apologize to all you have insulted because they don't own a CSX replica like you.


... waiting.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Well, no matter what you think, the evidence is clear that Shelby cars sell for more than the others. But of course you will subscribe to the conspiracy theory that all of the Barrett Jackson auctions are rigged.

Yes, Shelby Cobra replicas are worth more than other replicas. Why? Well, they cost more.

As "4pipes" said, the difference in the used car market is negligible between Shelby and Kirkham, certainly NOT the $60K roller difference and the Shelby gets painted.

They're just asking prices, but there are a couple Kirkhams listed on eBay right now asking $170,000 and $190,000. And you regularly see CSX's for sale new or nearly new for $175,000-$200,000 (ish). But here's a sold alloy CSX, which was asking $150,000.

"Shelby 427SC Cobra, CSX4334, (California VIN#CSX4334). Shelby aluminum coachwork finished in Guardsman blue. The BIG Picture: Click Here! Registered under the coveted “SB100” [California Senate Bill 100]—that means no smog certification, no California registration hassles for the life of the car! BIG closeup of its highly-coveted California SB100 sticker: Click Here! Under the hood: original Ford cast-iron 427FE side-oiler V8, stroked with a modified Ford 428FE crank [to 484 cid]. BIG Photo of powerplant: Click Here! Keith Black pistons, Edelbrock aluminum heads [9.8:1 compression... thus this rocket-thruster thrives on premium pump gas] & intake manifold with Holley 750 cfm carburetor & turkey pan, MSD ignition ensemble. In-Your-Face frontal shot: Click Here! The engine [built by 427FE master builder Southern Automotive], is mated to a 4-speed Ford/NASCAR large-spline toploader transmission. Another BIG 3/4-frontal shot (driver side): Click Here! The chassis is the traditional Shelby 4" main frame and four corner, coil-over suspension, rack & pinion steering, and Shelby 4-wheel disc brakes. BIG broadside shot#1 (driver side): Click Here! Rolling stock: polished 15” Trigo Halibrand-style pin-drive knockoff wheels shod with Goodyear Eagle period-correct rubber. BIG Photo of cockpit#1: Click Here! In the (Legend-correct) cockpit: original-style 15" steering wheel [BIG closeup of Moto-Lita wheel & dashboard#1: Click Here!], Shelby American blackfaced gauges; BIG closeup of Shelby American gauges: Click Here!], Legend-correct pedals, leather upholstery, Raydyot mirrors and windwings. BIG closeup of Moto-Lita wheel & dashboard#2: Click Here! Safety features include: Simpson 4-point shoulder harnesses and driver’s-side padded rollbar. BIG Photo of cockpit#2: Click Here! You also get: a canvas waterproof top, Cobra car cover, Shelby MSO, and a visor signed by Carroll Shelby [Carroll Shelby’s autograph on the visor: Click Here!]. 3,325 miles [5,351 km]. Never raced, tracked or otherwise abused, always garaged. BIG 3/4-rearview shot (passenger side): Click Here! $150,000 obo. Contact Joe at 650-796-xxxx
BIG closeup of Shelby dash plaque: Click Here!
BIG broadside shot#2 (driver side): Click Here!
Palo Alto (S.F. bay area), California
24 July
11 August 2015: You can mark my (all-aluminium) Guardsman Blue Shelby CSX4334 Cobra SOLD! It's now on The London Express headed for France! And you can tell Curt that I received the deposit within 24 hours after my ad went up on your site. I received other serious responses from all over, including one from Switzerland. My Cobra sold sight-unseen except for your site's spectacularly effective photography tips. Curt advised me that my nice Nikon D7100 would pay for itself with this one photo-shoot, and he was absolutely correct. You can color me (and the buyer) a happy camper! Best regards, Joe Barta"

According to Evan his Shelby Cobra replica is worth $240,000, to him and his insurance company. But Evan's CSX4206 is supposedly one of the most detailed CSX's on Earth, so his car deserves a premium over other CSX's.

4pipes point and mine, the CSX plaque may be worth $20K +/-.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

... According to Evan his Shelby Cobra replica is worth $240,000, to him and his insurance company ...

What did he do, have it appraised by his insurance company

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

What did he do, have it appraised by his insurance company

Nope, he asked Billy Andrews of HRE how much it would cost to replace CSX4206. With CSX alloy rollers at $160,000, I'm assuming the other $80,000 would be for the engine, trans and the alot of real-ly genuine and authentic details, making it more real-er.

So, Evan called his insurance company and told them the real replacement value of his car is $240,000.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Paul: Your consideration and acknowledgment is most appreciated. Thank you for acknowledging my car is indeed a 100% genuine Shelby Cobra.

It's definitely very "Cobra-like."

[Thor maine]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Yes Thor, whatever you say. Are you sure your percentages are correct.

AC Cars Ltd -Shelby American - FORD made the Cobra. Forty +/- years later a derivative of one of the company's builds a replica of the Cobra from the 1960's. YUP that is a 1/3 genuine knockoff , do the math. Hey maybe you are doing that new "Common Core" math thing????

[Blue66]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Now apologize to all you have insulted because they don't own a CSX replica like you..

Why the hell would he ? Some can't afford them OR just don't care. What's the big deal ??? You guys have to get out of your mother's basement . There is a different world out there. Taking this junk way to serious . Ok my car is faster than everyone here

OK have to get a thread going about how old people are here