Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[Blue66]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

What process did you follow for DMV registration

65 COBRA 427 S/C.. Just like it was registered in Mich and Tx. In and out of the DMV.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Blue66

65 COBRA 427 S/C.. Just like it was registered in Mich and Tx. In and out of the DMV.

Not what it is registered as, the process followed when it was originally registered. Many have that same or very similar wording on their registrations, and most of them are not continuations

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Time for me to avoid squandering precious and billable time on those that can't be helped.

Adieu my lost friends. See you on other threads.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

My my. You guys are still trying to establish the current production Shelby Cobras are nothing more than mere replica Cobras such as what you own. Keep at it, maybe you guys really can change the facts if you try hard enough and inveigh strongly enough.

I'll check back in a few days to see if you guys have progressed any further.

My, my. You gotta love someone who decides to say goodbye to a thread only to comeback a day or two later. There's a man of his word. Must be a slow day at the office.

As the Registry states, your CSX is very Cobra-like. And as you stated many times, your car is a "true replica."

Did you decide to change your mind now? Are you "walking it back", like the "wheat and chaff" insult to the non-CSX replica owners?

Your CSX was put together just like almost all of us here, in the form of a kit. Buy a chassis & body, using nothing remotely like the materials used in the 1960's, and then add an engine and transmission by a local shop (HRE in yoiur case). Then go pass an state inspection and register it. We've all done the same process.

The only difference is you got a badge from a successor company to the original Shelby American, three or four decades later. Sure, Evan, whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy at night.

As a Kirkham owner, I'll take solace in the fact that the $60,000 alloy roller Shelby replica-premium nearly disappears entirely when the cars are sold as a completed used vehicle.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

... As a Kirkham owner, I'll take solace in the fact that the $60,000 alloy roller Shelby replica-premium nearly disappears entirely when the cars are sold as a completed used vehicle.

Not to mention -

Originally Posted by RodKnock

... the 50th Anniversary Shelby is ALL Kirkham per a posting by David K. ...

SAI went top shelf for that commemorative edition (as well they should). By the way nice bust here -

Originally Posted by REAL 1

... BTW Shelby aluminum roller sells for quite a bit more than Kirkhams and incorporate different suspension. Last I checked a Shelby alloy roller is about 1 to 1 1/2 years out and costs $160K for the just the roller. The 50th anniversary aluminum rollers sold I believer for $180K.

Kirkham rollers are $99K last I checked. Shelby Glass rollers are still $20K to $30k more.

Originally Posted by RodKnock

... Please don't pass along bad information to the public.

Just Evan doing what Evan does best, to mislead at every opportunity, the man is nothing if not consistent

[NewYorkGuy]

Did cobra guys talk smack to Carroll Shelby's face when he was alive? Real, replica, Mexico, South Africa, Poland, backshed... All these Cobras exist for one reason. $$$$ there is big profit massaging car egos

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

... All these Cobras exist for one reason. $$$$ there is big profit massaging car egos

Not as much as you think.

[trularin]

Try the red lure, with the action this thread is getting you will probably get a hit.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Did cobra guys talk smack to Carroll Shelby's face when he was alive? Real, replica, Mexico, South Africa, Poland, backshed... All these Cobras exist for one reason. $$$$ there is big profit massaging car egos

This may very well be the one thread where your posts are every bit as valid and relevant as the rest of them.

Don't let it go to your head.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

A question for you Ned, being in a position to possibly know. Did Carroll Shelby provide input into the Registry as it evolved and grew over time? My gut tells me he had to be a contributor in some capacity, but whether he had a say in the structure, vehicle classifications and content is unknown.

Shelby did not contribute to the registry apart from allowing several SAAC members to invade his attic and go through file boxes of old papers he no longer wanted to keep. These included invoices for many Cobras and Shelbys as well as some warranty claims, etc. They really provided some previously-unknown details. I also asked him some questions about specific cars, such as his Super Snake, CSX 3015, and specific customers, such as Lance Reventlow, from whom Shelby acquired his first commercial buildings. As things progressed, however, Shelby reached the point where he had forgotten most of the details about the cars, and he would call me with questions when he needed information about a Cobra for one reason or another. He used to joke that we knew more about his cars than he did.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Shelby did not contribute to the registry apart from allowing several SAAC members to invade his attic and go through file boxes of old papers he no longer wanted to keep. These included invoices for many Cobras and Shelbys as well as some warranty claims, etc. They really provided some previously-unknown details. I also asked him some questions about specific cars, such as his Super Snake, CSX 3015, and specific customers, such as Lance Reventlow, from whom Shelby acquired his first commercial buildings. As things progressed, however, Shelby reached the point where he had forgotten most of the details about the cars, and he would call me with questions when he needed information about a Cobra for one reason or another. He used to joke that we knew more about his cars than he did.

Thanks for that info Ned.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Not as much as you think.

Hmm, if there is no big $$$, why did Shelby and McClusky fake their "barnyard" cobras to the public? This real vs. replica debate keeps these cars current to the next group of car guys

[RodKnock]

I thought Evan's comment on a separate "Which GT40?" thread was interesting and pertained to our discussion here:

Which GT40?

In Evan's words: "I like the fact the Spf's are factory built and have license from Safir and are th only cars legally that can be called GT40's from the factory. Replica of the original but a damn nice one and legally a GT40."

Hmmm. That same phrase certainly applies to his Shelby Cobra replica.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Hmm, if there is no big $$$, why did Shelby and McClusky fake their "barnyard" cobras to the public? This real vs. replica debate keeps these cars current to the next group of car guys

Money? Yes.
Big $$$? No.

And the debate doesn't need to keep going for CSX4/6's to command premiums, or big $$$.
Most owners don't set foot here.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I thought Evan's comment on a separate "Which GT40?" thread was interesting and pertained to our discussion here:

Which GT40?

In Evan's words: "I like the fact the Spf's are factory built and have license from Safir and are th only cars legally that can be called GT40's from the factory. Replica of the original but a damn nice one and legally a GT40."

Hmmm. That same phrase certainly applies to his Shelby Cobra replica.

Interesting. Evan's 100% correct. The only 'real' debatable thing with CSX4/6 Cobras is that SAI isn't licensing themselves, they have a supplier for their own product. Yes, I know, not genuine, original, et al. Just to point that it's not a perfect simile.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by rodneym

... Most owners don't set foot here.

The "why" can be found here -
Aluminum Body Shelby Continuation rollers $160,000.00

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Interesting. Evan's 100% correct. The only 'real' debatable thing with CSX4/6 Cobras is that SAI isn't licensing themselves, they have a supplier for their own product. Yes, I know, not genuine, original, et al. Just to point that it's not a perfect simile.

Very debatable and not perfect, due to licensing in the GT40's case vs. Kirkham building a car for Shelby, but that's just paperwork legal-ese.

A modern Shelby Component Cobra is a replica of the original and can be legally called a Shelby Cobra. A close similarity IMO.

And I'm not sure how long the market will support a premium for a CSX4000 versus a Kirkham. Certainly the used Cobra market doesn't support it. I figured it out back in 2007 that the extra premium for Shelby Cobra versus a Kirkham Cobra was worth nothing to me. A plaque and a fake signature on an MSO?

[rodneym]

Phallacy of analogy, Rodknock. Not the same.

Joe,
Is there an argument in there?

[rodneym]

Rod,
I don't believe KMP's to have a premium over CSX glass. Price wise those two models have been nearly identical for as long as I've been here. The CSX ally continuations, from all I've seen, do fetch a premium (and a premium was paid at purchase). The price for some KMP's being sold now, the few that are out there, are 'asking' for CSX ally prices, but not fetching. That's always my observation.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Phallacy of analogy, Rodknock. Not the same.

I'll disagree with your opinion, regardless of that wonderful phrase "Phallacy of analogy." I say it's similar. Replica but legal.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Rod,
I don't believe KMP's to have a premium over CSX glass. Price wise those two models have been nearly identical for as long as I've been here. The CSX ally continuations, from all I've seen, do fetch a premium (and a premium was paid at purchase). The price for some KMP's being sold now, the few that are out there, are 'asking' for CSX ally prices, but not fetching. That's always my observation.

I never said KMP's have a premium over CSX alloy or glass. What I did say is that the premium between the two alloy cars narrows quite a bit as they both hit the used car market. 4pipes noted a $20,000 difference (CSX premium over KMP) , which is probably about right from what I've seen and heard.

There are two Kirkhams on eBay asking $170,000 and $190,000. Not sure what they'll fetch.

I already posted CSX4334 (alloy), asking $150,000 on Cobra Country, sold a couple months back. There are no KMP's on CobraCountry at the moment, but the last ones that I saw had fairly steep asking prices.