Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[Joe's Garage]

Turn the crank, the monkey dances

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Thanks Paul. No doubt whatsoever I'm Cool Hand Luke in this one. Absolutely. Have you guys watched the full movie as opposed to just that short clip? I am gladly taking that role.

Not the whole movie, just the short clip. That's what I posted. Its a sad scene where this pathetic character who has no sense continues to get pummeled even though he is beat. The crowd, with the blood lust, salivate at the scene of watching the fight. But then they all realize how pathetic it is. They all turn away as even they, criminals, can't bear to look at this sad spectacle. This fool has no sense whatsoever. He's not cool. He's sad.

But if you want to take the whole movie, then it is a pathetic petty criminal with anti-social behaviors who becomes an even more pathetic character who has no sense.

Stay down Real1, stay down.

What a pathetic scene this is.

[Joe's Garage]

It's REAL simple -

FFR sells row boats
BDR sells row boats
SPF sells row boats
Kirkham sells row boats
Shelby buys Kirkham row boats
Shelby slaps a "dinghy" sticker on the Kirkham row boats
Shelby sells the Kirkham row boat as a dinghy for thousands more

Evan thinks his "dinghy" is not a row boat because of the dinghy sticker

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

It's REAL simple -
Shelby sells the Kirkham row boat as a dinghy for thousands more

Evan thinks his "dinghy" is not a row boat because of the dinghy sticker

He has to justify overspending for a rebadged Kirkham somehow!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Rod Knock: You are just not getting this. You read and see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. That's OK. Its just you.

I'm not good at posting links but I have cut and pasted the relevant portions and even cited page numbers in the Registry that are more than clear. Please just read the Registry. It's all explained and in there. Your arguments are jejune at this juncture. This is not difficult stuff. The only reason I am clarifying as this thread goes along is to make sure any new visitors' to this cite researching the issue don't have the issue clouded by petty, envious, trite and hackneyed smears on the current production Cobras. That's all.

What Ned says or doesn't say is not determinative. His knowledge as to the original series doesn't make him an arbiter of the facts, the law, reality, Websters definition and what the Registry itself clearly says on the current production Cobras. No person can change that I don't care who they are. Period. The facts, the law, Websters and the Registry are very clear.

Evan, the irony here is that you're the one not getting this. You're the one reading and seeing what you want to see and hearing what you want to hear.

And that's OK with me. Its just you.

As Ned, the curator of the genuine AC/Shelby legacy, said, let's call "a spade a spade." Your car is NOT one of the 998. Those are THE genuine, authentic and real Cobras. By your own admission, you own a replica. Replicas cannot be genuine, authentic or real. LOGIC!

The Registry also contains words and phrases like "true replica" and "Cobra-like" for a reason. That language exists for a reason. And as Ned said, "certain liberties" were taken with the Shelby Cobra replicas. And I'm positive that all of those "certain liberties" will removed from the next edition of the Registry and no ambiguity will exist any longer.

You can't post a link? Seriously? Edit cut & paste is too difficult for you? Post a link or it doesn't exist.

Fake, fraud, facts and LOGIC. Your license plate is fraudulent. You do NOT own a real one. You're not one of the 998. Sorry, I hate to break it to ya. You have a kit car just like the rest of us.

[CSX4815]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Turn the crank, the monkey dances

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Evan thinks his "dinghy" is not a row boat because of the dinghy sticker

Originally Posted by jhv48

He has to justify overspending for a rebadged Kirkham somehow!

You know this belittling and name calling by this a-hole Johnny come lately as well as others here has really become such a waste of bandwidth. Jamo is just as much to blame for letting this crap continue... ought to be ashamed of himself.

I have seen for a long time here on this forum the CSX envy that many have here... biased toward Kirkham and anti Shelby. Who cares? I'm done with this place... good riddance!

[JBCOBRA]

No envy here whatsoever. I have so much fun driving my car (over 20,000 miles so far) that if I never got to drive it again I already got my money's worth!
Look, Evan is just a strange person. I wonder how many miles he has driven his car?
In my opinion they are worth ZERO unless driven
ps. a glass Shelby is a Superformance. period

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by CSX4815

You know this belittling and name calling by this a-hole Johnny come lately as well as others here has really become such a waste of bandwidth. Jamo is just as much to blame for letting this crap continue... ought to be ashamed of himself.

I have seen for a long time here on this forum the CSX envy that many have here... biased toward Kirkham and anti Shelby. Who cares? I'm done with this place... good riddance!

While I chose not to buy a Shelby Cobra replica, and buy a Kirkham Cobra replica, I'm not biased against Shelby Cobras. I love the the 998 and we cherish them. But the rest of us just have kit cars, because, well, they all copy to varying degrees the 998.

While the CSX 4000/6000/7000/8000 are great replicas, both alloy and fiberglass (though the 998 are all alloy), I think calling them "genuine," "authentic," or "real" not only cheapens the AC/Shelby legacy, but also defies simple logic. That's all.

[Paul F]

Sure, people poke fun at Shelby replicas because they are what they are... Shelby wanting to get in on the market that was made by other brands. So what was legendary became something less.

Of course there is bias towards Kirkhams. The Kirkham brothers did something fantastic. They build a high quality replica and made a market along with all the other replica makers. When people see a history of lawsuits and money grabs, and a vehicle that is indeed, not much more than re-branding another replica makers vehicle, there is nothing of which to be envious.

Of course, this thread is nonsensical. No one should take it personally. It is a simple battle of wits (or is it witless?) about a bunch of nonsense. Why say good riddance to a site that has a great deal of good posts on a variety of Cobra subjects just because a half-dozen people are off in a corner with this nonsense?

[twobjshelbys]

CSX4815's opinion is shared by many. When in CO a fellow CSX owner was having a problem and I suggested he ask here, and said he would just be berated about buying the car and never get an answer. He pretty much nailed it.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Paul F

Of course there is bias towards Kirkhams.

Actually, I think there's a bias towards ERA's here on CC.

It's always Peter this and Peter that. I get tired of hearing about of their excellent customer service, fantastic product and customers posting fun builds. Really gets old.

[kevins2]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

CSX4815's opinion is shared by many. When in CO a fellow CSX owner was having a problem and I suggested he ask here, and said he would just be berated about buying the car and never get an answer. He pretty much nailed it.

Tony,

It actually doesn't have to be that way. I've been on this site for a little shy of 4 years and, particularly in the early stages when I was building my car, I asked a lot of questions and got input to help solve problems or to help me understand something better. In hindsight, some of my questions were pretty dumb but nobody flamed me for asking for help. I assume that was because even the dumb questions were asked honestly with no attitude, ego, my car's better than your car, unsolicited opinions, etc. None of that nonsense. If you check all of that at the keyboard, this site can be very helpful.

Kevin

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by kevins2

Tony,

It actually doesn't have to be that way. I've been on this site for a little shy of 4 years and, particularly in the early stages when I was building my car, I asked a lot of questions and got input to help solve problems or to help me understand something better. In hindsight, some of my questions were pretty dumb but nobody flamed me for asking for help. I assume that was because even the dumb questions were asked honestly with no attitude, ego, my car's better than your car, unsolicited opinions, etc. None of that nonsense. If you check all of that at the keyboard, this site can be very helpful.

Kevin

Your experience in those days was the same as mine (I lurked around late 2008-ish and joined in 2009). The forum was very helpful in sorting things out when I was making my purchase decision. The anti-Shelby bias was not as rampant then. When I was having the DFI issues there were lots of good pointers and suggestions. It's only in the past year or so that the primary focus has become the essence of this topic. Over and over again.

I think the only outstanding technical question I still have is "which are the boy bolts, which are the girl bolts, when do they mate, and why do they drop their children on my garage floor".

[JBCOBRA]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Your experience in those days was the same as mine (2008-ish). When I was having the DFI issues there were lots of good pointers and suggestions. It's only in the past year or so that the primary focus has become the essence of this topic. Over and over again.

I think the only outstanding technical question I still have is "which are the boy bolts, which are the girl bolts, when do they mate, and why do they drop their children on my garage floor".

True. One word for all is. Evan

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Evan, the irony here is that you're the one not getting this. You're the one reading and seeing what you want to see and hearing what you want to hear.

And that's OK with me. Its just you.

As Ned, the curator of the genuine AC/Shelby legacy, said, let's call "a spade a spade." Your car is NOT one of the 998. Those are THE genuine, authentic and real Cobras. By your own admission, you own a replica. Replicas cannot be genuine, authentic or real. LOGIC!

The Registry also contains words and phrases like "true replica" and "Cobra-like" for a reason. That language exists for a reason. And as Ned said, "certain liberties" were taken with the Shelby Cobra replicas. And I'm positive that all of those "certain liberties" will removed from the next edition of the Registry and no ambiguity will exist any longer.

You can't post a link? Seriously? Edit cut & paste is too difficult for you? Post a link or it doesn't exist.

Fake, fraud, facts and LOGIC. Your license plate is fraudulent. You do NOT own a real one. You're not one of the 998. Sorry, I hate to break it to ya. You have a kit car just like the rest of us.

Yes, Ok. It's just me.

Ned is not the "curator" of the AC/Shelby legacy. Who anointed him with that title? You are really grasping at straws now. Ned can say whatever he choses to. He is not SAAC, nor does he speak for SAAC, nor does he say he speaks for SAAC and he certainly doesn't speak for SAAC on the issue being discussed. I would say he is just "slightly" biased" Its been 7 years since the last Registry came out and the litigation ended and 3 years since ol' Carroll's passed on. Nothing has changed in SAAC's position as to the current production Cobras.

Your misuse of terms at play and lack understanding of them is highlighted by the latest shining example which is the misuse of "curator". Ned is the Registar of the original series Cobras. He is very knowledgeable on that subject. Not debated here.

"Logic" is flawed when there is a failure to understand the underlying facts. Your logic is flawed based on your misunderstanding or misuse or twisting of facts and term definitions to suit your purpose. All I will keep saying is read the Registry. Its all there. Clear and concise. If you can't understand the Registry I am sorry, I just can't help you.

As to my license plate. It is 100% accurate and correct. Again, facts, law and Registry son, Registry. Its all explained in that book.

Keep spinning.

[JBCOBRA]

Oy Vey

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Yes, Ok. It's just me.

Ned is not the "curator" of the AC/Shelby legacy. Who anointed him with that title? You are really grasping at straws now. Ned can say whatever he choses to. He is not SAAC, nor does he speak for SAAC, nor does he say he speaks for SAAC and he certainly doesn't speak for SAAC on the issue being discussed. I would say he is just "slightly" biased" Its been 7 years since the last Registry came out and the litigation ended and 3 years since ol' Carroll's passed on. Nothing has changed in SAAC's position as to the current production Cobras.

Your misuse of terms at play and lack understanding of them is highlighted by the latest shining example which is the misuse of "curator". Ned is the Registar of the original series Cobras. He is very knowledgeable on that subject. Not debated here.

"Logic" is flawed when there is a failure to understand the underlying facts. Your logic is flawed based on your misunderstanding or misuse or twisting of facts and term definitions to suit your purpose. All I will keep saying is read the Registry. Its all there. Clear and concise. If you can't understand the Registry I am sorry, I just can't help you.

As to my license plate. It is 100% accurate and correct. Again, facts, law and Registry son, Registry. Its all explained in that book.

Keep spinning.

Yep, and that book also calls your CSX4206 "Cobra like" and a "true replica." Shelby just didn't like the term replica, so he called something else. It's a replica produced 30-50 years after the 998. Everything else is replica. And a replica is not genuine. And you admit you own a replica. That's LOGIC.

Yes, as you like to do with Rolex watches or Ferraris or the Mona Lisa, my analogy is that Ned, the SAAC Cobra Registrar is indeed the Curator of the 998. That's my position and you believe otherwise. I don't really care.

When the Registry changes, which I'm sure it will, all that ambigious language will be removed. Because, logically, you own a replica. Not real. Not authentic. Not genuine. If Carroll Shelby came back from the dead and told me that your car is a genuine Shelby Cobra, I'd say, with all the respect in the world, "B.S."

Here are the FACTS:

Originally Posted by Nedsel

The facts remain as follows: The cars that created the Cobra mystique - the 998 Cobras referred to as genuine, original, and legitimate - were built in the 1960's by the mutual partnership of AC Cars and Shelby American. Everything that followed was a copy in one form or another. Go down the list and name your brand, from Arntz to Butler to Contemporary, etc - they are all facsimiles of the original, and were marketed as such. Some are pretty good copies while some are less so. Regardless, if your Cobra-like automobile wasn't built in the 60's, it is not one of the 998 original cars, hence it must be something else. Such as a replica of one of the original Cobras. It simply can not be anything else, no matter how many different ways you attempt to spin it.

Originally Posted by Nedsel

That's pretty much what everyone has acknowledged. The 60's Cobras are the original, authentic Cobras that define the term "real" in most peoples' minds when they ask the question, "Is that a real Cobra?" They are not asking how exact a copy of the 60's cars your car might be; they are asking, "Was it made in the 60's? Hence, is it a real Cobra?"

Facts, fraud, logic, Registry (ambigious with terms like Cobra-like and true replica).

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by JBCOBRA

Oy Vey

Someone stole my line.

But I agree.

[RodKnock]

And for those complaining about this thread. Jamo has setup a sticky for us to play in the playground. As long as were main civil to each other, the thread won't get closed.

But, for those that don't like the thread, just do as the Australians do, or Patrick, or hundreds of others, just ignore it.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Actually, I think there's a bias towards ERA's here on CC.

It's always Peter this and Peter that. I get tired of hearing about of their excellent customer service, fantastic product and customers posting fun builds. Really gets old.

That's because ERAs are clearly superior to all other replicas, or originals, or replicas of originals, or continuations of originals, or original continuations, or whatever. You should know that by now.