Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[trularin]

So, on the topic of real license plate frames versus replica license plate frames...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Dimis

RK - good to have you back... I thought something bad happened
Sorry, just finished watching the Godfather series...

No, I didn't "disappear." Just a busy weekend. but thanks for asking.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

... Only difference between original Shelby and current production is years of manufacture ...

Totally false ...

Improvements include a stronger steel frame and better alloys used in the components, plus better cooling and additional heat shielding to make these cars safer and more drivable without losing any of their original character.
Shelby Cobra 427 S/C Continuation Series

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

... it is clear that the current production Cobras, like all the replicas, are an improved copy of the originals. Note that the Continuations are offered in fiberglass and carbon fiber bodies ...

Originally Posted by REAL 1

... You can argue minutia all day long. Fiberglass not aluminum in some cases that makes not a wit of difference in the final analysis of what the car is. Carroll Shelby originally wanted to do fiberglass for the original series in fact ...

Yes Evan, Carroll Shelby also wanted Chevy power for the original series.

Therefore, a Shelby Component Cobra fitted with Chevy power "makes not a wit of difference in the final analysis of what the car is".

... and I would agree, that is the nature of replicas/component cars/kit cars.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Evan, I don't link the current Cobras to the originals because, apart from their appearance and their use of the Shelby name, they aren't connected. AC Cars did not build them and they are far from exact copies. You say they are from the same manufacturer, and I ask - do you really understand what the F you are talking about? It's the same in name only, with different players, different manufacturing methods, and a different corporate structure. Same manufacturer? Only a fool would argue that. But if the shoe fits ...

As for my referring to your car as a replica, you read the definitions on one page, but fail to comprehend the bigger picture on the other pages that specifically deal with the CSX 4xxx cars. Such as SAAC's note on page 707 that explained how Shelby would compete with the other replica manufacturers directly "by building and selling a Cobra replica of his own." Charitably, SAAC decided to label the new Shelby cars as something other than replicas simply to differentiate them from other recreations that were already referred to as replicas, since Shelby was building them. Note that they also state the 4000-series cars were "built to more or less original 427 Cobra S/C standards." Still want to insist they are connected?

And don't make me laugh by mistaking exactly who is "grinding his own personal axe to protect his turf." All of us know that refers to YOU.

Ned: Not connected? Really. Your clubs registry states SAI has continued in existence since 1968. That's a fact. Carroll was connected with the original Cobras. But for him they wouldn't exist. So a Ferrari today is not a Ferrari because Enzo is dead and the employees who made Ferrari's in the 50's and 60's no longer are around and manufacturing processes are different etc...? Really???? Ok. That makes sense. That would apply to any manufacturer that was around back then and is around today. Talking about fools yours is a fools argument. Hey, if the shoe fits.

Who the hell needs AC? AC made the chassis and bodies for the original Shelby Cobra. The major design changes and improvement that made the Cobra a Cobra came at the direction of SAI. AC was the fabricator for the most part. SAI owns the rights to the name and marks and it was their name and mark back then and now. SAI historically also did plenty of fabrication then and now.

But for value I'd rather a have a current production Shelby Cobra. Much better car.

Whether the current production Cobras are exact to original standards or close is irrelevant. You and your friends can wallow in that minutia all day long. It matters not a wit to the issue.

And you will also note that your Clubs Registry notes expressly the current production Cobras as "authentic" Cobras and identifies them as such in more than one location. Very charitable indeed. Thank you. I guess they "charitably" did that in 2004 and right through the Registry. You also noted it was Shelby who referred to them for legal reasons as Component Cobras not SAAC. But for federal regulations Carroll would have not used "component" either. Go ahead look silly and tell me differently.

All we need is Shelby American for the current production Cobras. Don't need your charity either. We have the facts. If the majority of SAAC board members are like you and want to ignore history and ongoing history just drop the Continuation series from the club and Registry.

If your club is going to change it's stance to humor your own personal animus and bias don't be surprised that when your club looks to track the Continuation series and obtain info for it's next Registry continuation owners tell your club to kiss their asses. It's also a good way to alienate a lot of club members. But hey if it makes Ned the curator personally happy and if that's more important to your club then you guys go right ahead.

Won't change the facts though.

Oh yeah. Almost forgot. I am grinding an axe. It's clear. No qualms admitting it. I am protecting the current production Cobras from being knocked and demeaned from guys with sour grapes and pompous asses who only want the original series to be the only authentic Cobra on the block. You grind your axe. I'll grind mine.

P.S. I'd be willing to bet my Continuation Cobra will likely be worth near what your COB is in a few years. Must really burn your derriere.

P.S. P.S. This response if for the rest of you guys too. Can't respond to each of you. Too many here on this thread. I believe I covered though. Have a great day.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

You say they are from the same manufacturer, and I ask - do you really understand what the F you are talking about? It's the same in name only, with different players, different manufacturing methods, and a different corporate structure. Same manufacturer? Only a fool would argue that. But if the shoe fits ...

Sorry, Ned, I see now that you addressed what I later posted, regarding the majority (75%) of the SA being purchased by a company called Venture, because SA was having cash flow problems. And then several years later, the new corporate structure must have taken the company public in order to get some or all of their equity returned. Page 710 in the Registry.

And please ignore Evan. Your COB is far more desirable than his replica. And his CSX4000 or any other Shelby replica will never be worth the same as your COB. He obviously says this BS in order to get under your skin, it's part of his "schtick."

The facts are that Evan chooses to ignore that the original SA company no longer exists, the material used in the modern Shelby replicas are completely different than the originals, the current "certain liberties were taken" Registry mentions that the Shelby CSX4000 is "Cobra-like" and a "true replica" and the SAAC website statement was revised the delete any reference to "real", "authentic" or "genuine."

It's a rebadged Kirkham with a CSX plaque and for that privilege (the badges and plaque) you get to pay an addtional $65,000 (difference between Kirkham and an alloy 50th Anniversary Edition). And somehow that makes sense to some people.

[Joe's Garage]

cred·i·bil·i·ty
noun
The quality of being trusted and believed in.
Synonyms: trustworthiness, reliability, dependability, integrity; reputation, status, authority.

Credible sources are ones the reader can trust. When writing a research paper, doing research, or reading for background information, writers should ALWAYS use a credible source.

Ned: Curator of the SAAC World Registry, expert of the Original 60's Shelby Cobra.
Evan: Cobra enthusiast, once mistakenly listed a Shelby Component Cobra as an Original. (No Evan, the badges and plaque don't make it original)

Go with Ned?
Go with Evan?

No need to answer, it's a rhetorical question.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

So a Ferrari today is not a Ferrari because Enzo is dead and the employees who made Ferrari's in the 50's and 60's no longer are around and manufacturing processes are different etc...? Really???? Ok. That makes sense. That would apply to any manufacturer that was around back then and is around today.

To take your Ferrari analogy, that you continue to use. If Ferrari were to stop delivering cars with engines and transmissions, and sold only kits, and the chassis was built by someone else, like say Google, and you put a ford in it.
Would that still be REAL Ferrari?

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Oh yeah. Almost forgot. I am grinding an axe. It's clear. No qualms admitting it. I am protecting the current production Cobras from being knocked and demeaned from guys with sour grapes and pompous asses who only want the original series to be the only authentic Cobra on the block. You grind your axe. I'll grind mine.

Again, No one is attacking the kits/cars, just the owners who are trying to pass them off as something they aren't.
Same thing would happen if a Kirkham, SPF, era, ff5 or other was trying to do the same


Ps. Stop playing the victim, You have too nice a replica to get any sympathy from me.

Pps. I really do admire the tenacity, stubbornness & effort to which you defend the indefensible.

Kind regards.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

And please ignore Evan. Your COB is far more desirable than his replica. And his CSX4000 or any other Shelby replica will never be worth the same as your COB. He obviously says this BS in order to get under your skin, it's part of his "schtick."

Well this may or may not be true, but it's really irrelevant to the point.
I could care less if a replica is worth more than an original.
It wouldn't be the first time. The Kirkham billet cobra for example comes to mind.

I'd lay more for that than an original.
All you need to find is the right fool to part with their money.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Dimis

To take your Ferrari analogy, that you continue to use. If Ferrari were to stop delivering cars with engines and transmissions, and sold only kits, and the chassis was built by someone else, like say Google, and you put a ford in it. Would that still be REAL Ferrari?

Again, No one is attacking the kits/cars, just the owners who are trying to pass them off as something they aren't. Same thing would happen if a Kirkham, SPF, era, ff5 or other was trying to do the same

Evan doesn't seem to understand that Ferrari doesn't make the 250, 330, 246, 308, 328, 348, 355, 360, etc. anymore. Ferarri sells new cars with new car warranties from their dealerships where you can drive off the showroom floor. All the while, dealership personnel will file the necessary paperwork with the DMW so you get your title in the mail in 30 days. No special inspections and no special exemptions for Federal safety and emissions to drive a new Ferrari on the road. Obviously, not the case with the Shelby Cobra replica. But you canbet he'll oince again bring up the analogy in a few pages just to try and wear us out.

He can't seem separate himself from his car. His car is beautiful, but for the rivet pattern and his misleading license plate.

And it's really nice of him to "slum it" with the Kirkham, ERA, BDR, SPF and FFR crowd.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

cred·i·bil·i·ty
noun
The quality of being trusted and believed in.
Synonyms: trustworthiness, reliability, dependability, integrity; reputation, status, authority.

Credible sources are ones the reader can trust. When writing a research paper, doing research, or reading for background information, writers should ALWAYS use a credible source.

Ned: Curator of the SAAC World Registry, expert of the Original 60's Shelby Cobra.
Evan: Cobra enthusiast, once mistakenly listed a Shelby Component Cobra as an Original. (No Evan, the badges and plaque don't make it original)

Go with Ned?
Go with Evan?

No need to answer, it's a rhetorical question.

How about just go with the World Registry. It's very clear in it's statements.

I'm good with that.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Ned: Not connected? Really. Your clubs registry states SAI has continued in existence since 1968. That's a fact. Carroll was connected with the original Cobras. But for him they wouldn't exist. So a Ferrari today is not a Ferrari because Enzo is dead and the employees who made Ferrari's in the 50's and 60's no longer are around and manufacturing processes are different etc...? Really???? Ok. That makes sense. That would apply to any manufacturer that was around back then and is around today. Talking about fools yours is a fools argument. Hey, if the shoe fits.

Who the hell needs AC? AC made the chassis and bodies for the original Shelby Cobra. The major design changes and improvement that made the Cobra a Cobra came at the direction of SAI. AC was the fabricator for the most part. SAI owns the rights to the name and marks and it was their name and mark back then and now. SAI historically also did plenty of fabrication then and now.

But for value I'd rather a have a current production Shelby Cobra. Much better car.

Whether the current production Cobras are exact to original standards or close is irrelevant. You and your friends can wallow in that minutia all day long. It matters not a wit to the issue.

And you will also note that your Clubs Registry notes expressly the current production Cobras as "authentic" Cobras and identifies them as such in more than one location. Very charitable indeed. Thank you. I guess they "charitably" did that in 2004 and right through the Registry. You also noted it was Shelby who referred to them for legal reasons as Component Cobras not SAAC. But for federal regulations Carroll would have not used "component" either. Go ahead look silly and tell me differently.

All we need is Shelby American for the current production Cobras. Don't need your charity either. We have the facts. If the majority of SAAC board members are like you and want to ignore history and ongoing history just drop the Continuation series from the club and Registry.

If your club is going to change it's stance to humor your own personal animus and bias don't be surprised that when your club looks to track the Continuation series and obtain info for it's next Registry continuation owners tell your club to kiss their asses. It's also a good way to alienate a lot of club members. But hey if it makes Ned the curator personally happy and if that's more important to your club then you guys go right ahead.

Won't change the facts though.

Oh yeah. Almost forgot. I am grinding an axe. It's clear. No qualms admitting it. I am protecting the current production Cobras from being knocked and demeaned from guys with sour grapes and pompous asses who only want the original series to be the only authentic Cobra on the block. You grind your axe. I'll grind mine.

P.S. I'd be willing to bet my Continuation Cobra will likely be worth near what your COB is in a few years. Must really burn your derriere.

P.S. P.S. This response if for the rest of you guys too. Can't respond to each of you. Too many here on this thread. I believe I covered though. Have a great day.

Off the deep end I'd say. You're so wrong, I don't even know where to start. You've reverted back to your made up history and opinion stage. So far beyond help that's it's hard for me to care now. Unbelievable!
Larry

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Well this may or may not be true, but it's really irrelevant to the point.

I could care less if a replica is worth more than an original.
It wouldn't be the first time. The Kirkham billet cobra for example comes to mind.

I'd lay more for that than an original.
All you need to find is the right fool to part with their money.

It's relevant to me, since Evan seems to want to keep insulting Ned's COB.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

In fact some aluminum Continuation values are not far off from your "COB's".

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Who the hell needs AC? AC made the chassis and bodies for the original Shelby Cobra. The major design changes and improvement that made the Cobra a Cobra came at the direction of SAI. AC was the fabricator for the most part. SAI owns the rights to the name and marks and it was their name and mark back then and now. SAI historically also did plenty of fabrication then and now.
But for value I'd rather a have a current production Shelby Cobra. Much better car.

P.S. I'd be willing to bet my Continuation Cobra will likely be worth near what your COB is in a few years. Must really burn your derriere.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

How about just go with the World Registry. It's very clear in it's statements.

I'm good with that.

You mean the Registry where "certain liberties were taken" and also refers to your CSX4000 as "Cobra-like" and a "true replica."

Can't wait for the 50th () Edition of the World Registry, since the present-day SAAC Website shows the direction of where the Registry is headed.

[Nedsel]

It was Evan who used the term "futile." That is what it is like to attempt to reason with a potato. There's no point.

Dream on, Evan.

[ERANJ]

I find it amazing how Evan's facts and statements are twisted in an attempt to get under his skin. Definately a case of sour grapes looking at this from an outside perspective. Sorry guys when all is said and done looks like he won his case IMHO.

[JBCOBRA]

Real has a Serious case of Masochism

[JBCOBRA]

Originally Posted by ERANJ

I find it amazing how Evan's facts and statements are twisted in an attempt to get under his skin. Definately a case of sour grapes looking at this from an outside perspective. Sorry guys when all is said and done looks like he won his case IMHO.

Is this Evan?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERANJ

I find it amazing how Evan's facts and statements are twisted in an attempt to get under his skin. Definately a case of sour grapes looking at this from an outside perspective. Sorry guys when all is said and done looks like he won his case IMHO.

Must Evan's money partner. His wife.

Seriously, can you please specify which of Evan's facts and statements are being twisted?

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by LMH

Off the deep end I'd say. You're so wrong, I don't even know where to start. You've reverted back to your made up history and opinion stage. So far beyond help that's it's hard for me to care now. Unbelievable!
Larry

Of course I'm wrong. AC did it all. Came up the idea. Thought up all the needed changes and modifications. Shelby was just needed as a front man.

Lets keep it simple than shall we?. No Shelby no Cobra. Just a little Ace that's of little interest to automotive history.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Must Evan's money partner. His wife.

Seriously, can you please specify which of Evan's facts and statements are being twisted?

Oh, since you asked a question I'll answer it. All.