Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[Dangerous Doug]

Wow! This thread has plumbed new depths... I have a new appreciation for the "Ignore List".

All I can say is, "The horror... The Horror!"

DD

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Dimis

...
Joe,
No need to be rude... Evan's a nice guy... he just has this one little "Sheldonism" he can't seem to get past.

Not being rude, Evan is a blow hard, just ask around

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by Paul F

They spent money on a Cobra kit car but they don't want anyone calling it a kit car.

My Kit car was a "Most Assembly Required" Automobile.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Going through life hurling invectives at others will get you no where son. Those who can't articulate their position rationally and logically normally resort to name calling. Perfect example. Just like a 5 year old. Ouch!!

Jhv48: Is this the guy your were referring as to personal insults?

Like I said what a DOUCHE... just ask around

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Not being rude, Evan is a blow hard, just ask around

Could not have said it better myself...

[Jamo]

Somebody mentioned watches...oh goody...my favorite subject.

No Rolexes...too mundane/for small wristed fellows.

Some of my favorites...all are set at precisely 34 minutes ahead of the rest of mankind (a few in multiple timezones), and I'm still late most of the time. That means I'm far crazier than the vast majority of you folks.

Heuer Monaco
Omega "Speedy"
Breitling Navitimer World
Omega PloProf
Panerai PAM 1 (many, many straps...Mario Paci, DeLuca, etc.)
Panerai PAM 170 Sub
Omega Sub
Doxa Tri Time Zone 750 Sharkhunter
Tag Grand Carrera
Ball NEDU
Bell & Ross BR 01-92 Heritage

That being said...back to the boring part of this thread about these damn little cars. Yup, gonna make it a sticky. Which means there will be zilch patience for anyone who talks about which Cobra is more elite (originals excepted, but they know that) than the next one on any other thread.

Evan...enjoy.

Done.

[LMH]

Hey what's wrong with my red face TAG Heuer Formula 1? I'd rather have it any day over a Rolex!
Larry

[Dominik]

The real question should actually be (from replica owner to real owner, or vice versa):
Did you also spend all your money on this? If not, you're not worthy having either.

;-)

When I was 24 I did spend all my money on this. In fact I borrowed half from my dad.

If you are rich and have a real one, what's the big deal? Go and drive it!
If you hope for the increase in value to make a profit, buy two real ones because you want to keep one, don't you?

[Buzz]

...duplicate...

[Buzz]

Two words - EGO and VALIDATION - the only things that can make a man care so much about what other people think of him and his choices that he gets all puffed up and red faced trying to convince every stranger, bystander and passerby that his replica is real or that his kit car is really a high-end replica.

Who the hell cares? Life is way too short to agonise over other peoples opinions, hang-ups and choices. You have your life, I have my life and I can only hope you're enjoying what you have as much as I'm enjoying mine.

The funniest thing in either this thread or the other - can't recall which - was the poster who said to the effect that you go through all of your rehearsed, hi-falutin' dissertation on how real or special your Cobra is and the folks walk away, look at each other and simultaneously say "kit car". That cracked me up, and it probably happens more often than not, notwithstanding the other glorious times when the hoi polloi are so blown away by your song and dance that they clamour and beg to pose near your ride for photos and selfie shots.

[Xack]

And I was actually bragging about my Kellison and my Casio, sporting my knock-off Ray Bans. I'm so confused now!

[Ron61]

Xact,

You think that you are confused. I just read this whole thread and have already forgotten what the first post was.

Ron

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Two words - EGO and VALIDATION - the only things that can make a man care so much about what other people think of him and his choices that he gets all puffed up and red faced trying to convince every stranger, bystander and passerby that his replica is real or that his kit car is really a high-end replica.

Who the hell cares? Life is way too short to agonise over other peoples opinions, hang-ups and choices. You have your life, I have my life and I can only hope you're enjoying what you have as much as I'm enjoying mine.

The funniest thing in either this thread or the other - can't recall which - was the poster who said to the effect that you go through all of your rehearsed, hi-falutin' dissertation on how real or special your Cobra is and the folks walk away, look at each other and simultaneously say "kit car". That cracked me up, and it probably happens more often than not, notwithstanding the other glorious times when the hoi polloi are so blown away by your song and dance that they clamour and beg to pose near your ride for photos and selfie shots.

Clearly directed at me. More assumptions that are very incorrect and based on zero personal knowledge of what occurs. Even scientists and engineers have now been enlisted to help now beat me down and prove I'm wrong and what I own is not a Shelby Cobra but a pretend Shelby Cobra. Even name calling allowed to go unchecked to drive the point home. Sad. I'm crying now.

But....I see the light now ...the law, the facts and the Registry are just all wrong. Never realized I could be so misguided. Alas. Now I can't call my car a real Shelby Cobra I guess. Why own a Shelby Cobra when I could own a SPF for much less and just put a cool plate like 66COBRA or 427SNAKE on it and pretend just the same. Yes, I understand now. Maybe I'll even put a Chevy engine in it. Yes!

Never again will I respond to a thread dealing with this issue nor explain my view as to what is better to me even when the thread calls for a discussion as to what is "better" is posed like in the other thread. I promise not to say that owning a genuine Shelby Cobra is better to me than owning a pretend one. Promise. I just want all of you to like me and be my friend. I'll denigrate my Shelby so you all will like me. I will. I will. You'll see. Please, can I be your friend?

Did you guys know Rolex's now come in kits? Really. Just ordered one. Hey!, the door bell just rang, my new Rolex kit is here. Have to go put it together so I can have another fake Rolex in my collection.

Hey, you guys have a great day!



P.S. When you have fat wrist you need big watches.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Shelby American has the rights under agreement with Ford. The "ruling" as you refer to didn't deal with the trade mark issue. That was a different decision. The ruling only a small part of which was posted ruled in essence there was no distinctiveness in shape that was preserved or related back to Shelby since others began copying the shape and did so for such a long time it was not in the public domain and not worthy of protection any longer. Had Shelby acted years ago when the replica industry started he would have won the trade dress issue.

Originally Posted by LMH

Thanks!
Larry

Larry, do not get sucked into Evan's misleading spin, little of what he says actually culminates into a factual interpretation of Shelby or his cars.

Case in point, although Evan has summarized the trade dress issue reasonably well, he closes with a totally ridiculous assumption -

Had Shelby acted years ago when the replica industry started he would have won the trade dress issue.

The truth is, AC Cars Ltd. were the creators of the 289 and 427 bodies, not Shelby. If AC Cars Ltd. got wind that Shelby was bringing a law suit against replica builders on the shape of the 427 (back then), a simple FAX from across the pond would have squashed Shelby and his bumbling legal team who thought they had sole rights to the cobra shape. Who knows what AC Cars Ltd. would have done back then, but when Shelby brought the case to court some 40 years later, they probably knew it was a no-win and just let the court dispense with Shelby and his frivolous suit accordingly.

[REAL 1]

Except for the fact that Shelby owned the rights to the Cobra name and produced Shelby Cobras. Any trade dress action would not have been aimed at AC who was allowed to build AC Cobras under license and permission of SAI but would have been directed to stop third parties.

Yes, I am making assumptions since it never actually occurred but I believe my assumptions are valid. I do believe SAI would have been able to win against third parties.

Not saying I own a real Shelby Cobra or anything but just addressing the trade dress issue as opposed to the trade mark issue.

[jhv48]

I had some time to do a little research.

Did you know that there are at least 37 States (possibly more, I just lost interest) that define (for vehicle registration purposes) what a "kit car" is?

And, guess what, every one of us (that doesn't own an original 60's era cobra) own kit cars. Go figure!

Also, anyone want to try and guess how many times Shelby Continuation Kit Cars have been featured in "Kit Car", "Complete Kit Car", "Kit Car Builder" or similar kit car magazines? I'll give you a hint, more than three times.

So, there you have it. The Government and "Kit Car Magazine" have spoken.

I thought of asking the Pope what he thought about the issue but he was too busy talking about the refugees, global warming, the environment and helping the poor to give us the church's opinion. Maybe next time I'm in Rome I'll try again.

Still won't satisfy REELKITCAR1!

Wait for it!

[Jamo]

All that being said, with the creation of this sticky, I am not going to allow a free-for-all with name calling, etc. This applies to everyone concerned.

Proceed with care...

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Clearly directed at me. More assumptions that are very incorrect and based on zero personal knowledge of what occurs. Even scientists and engineers have now been enlisted to help now beat me down and prove I'm wrong and what I own is not a Shelby Cobra but a pretend Shelby Cobra...

Not totally and solely directed at you Evan. Many Cobra owners are a bit anal about defending their brands but you must admit you're THE major player in this game. Your car is a Shelby Cobra, no debate about that is possible. What causes the ongoing back-and-forth is your approach and the fact that many feel you denigrate other replicas by constantly casting your car as having a more pedigreed or elevated status than the others.

People who don't value the Shelby branding above the the car itself will never agree that yours is anything but a more expensive replica that came about because Shelby, surprised by the thriving Cobra replica industry and reckoning that he would enjoy a natural advantage, decided to readopt his long abandoned Cobra and jump into the replica game.

The various court rulings that came down as a result of his attempts to squeeze out the other replica manufacturers imply to most that the Cobra has become its own generic class of car based upon a certain set of distinct characteristics, primarily the shape and appearance of the body that no one entity can exclusively own.

From a branding and marketing point of view, however, Shelby owns the legal right to produce and market his product using the actual "Cobra" name, so while they're all essentially Cobras, only SAI can legally market theirs as such. Of course since they all replicate or imitate in varying degrees of faithfulness the original AC/Shelby Cobra of the 1960's, having that ability to brand theirs with that same Shelby Cobra name does imply a certain amount of cachet to enough people that they can sell at a higher price point.

No argument there and not at all difficult to understand, but one must also be able to understand the perspective that leads many to hold the opinion that a Shelby Continuation Cobra is just another (very nice, high quality) replica that happens to be sold and branded today by the current incarnation of the same company that used to make the original (read REal) Cobras back in the day. It's a sticking point that you (Evan) will never cotton to and others will never concede, so the arguing is pointless and all the animosity is just unnecessary.

If Ford and/or Shelby decided to manufacture and sell an actual, modern car based on the old Cobra name and heritage, it would be a real Shelby Cobra every bit as much as the new resurrected Camaros are real Chevy Camaros. The problem is that the Cobras made in the 60's can never again be manufactured and sold as automobiles again - by anyone - so all that remains of them now are the component/kit replicas of those cars, some of which are sold by Shelby - and they're damn nice ones that come with a lofty price premium because of the legal Cobra moniker.

You stepped up and coughed up the premium and yes, you can be technically correct when you say that you own a real Shelby Cobra. To most other people, regardless of marketing semantics and legal branding rights, the only real Cobras, which all of our cars replicate (again, with varying degrees of faithfulness), were made in the 60's and that to them is historical fact, unassailable and unchangeable; impervious to legal wrangling over the use of the brand name or the creative interpretation of such by someone in whose interest it is to establish otherwise in order to protect the perceived value of his investment.

I don't care much either way myself. I just love Cobras, and these are just my musings on this way too contentious subject. Have a great day all, and enjoy your Cobras Shelby or otherwise.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by jhv48

I had some time to do a little research.

Did you know that there are at least 37 States (possibly more, I just lost interest) that define (for vehicle registration purposes) what a "kit car" is?

And, guess what, every one of us (that doesn't own an original 60's era cobra) own kit cars. Go figure!

Also, anyone want to try and guess how many times Shelby Continuation Kit Cars have been featured in "Kit Car", "Complete Kit Car", "Kit Car Builder" or similar kit car magazines? I'll give you a hint, more than three times.

So, there you have it. The Government and "Kit Car Magazine" have spoken.

I thought of asking the Pope what he thought about the issue but he was too busy talking about the refugees, global warming, the environment and helping the poor to give us the church's opinion. Maybe next time I'm in Rome I'll try again.

Still won't satisfy REELKITCAR1!

Wait for it!

What is the definition used by the 37 states?

I have no problem with "Kit Car". Yes, I get it. Under todays regulations and governmental controls with safety standards, emissions which did not exist back in '62-'68 non of these cars whether Shelby Cobras or FFR can be sold as finished cars legally without having to comply with the bevy of safety and emissions regulations.

If SAI were still building and selling Cobras today and had continued non stop for the past 50 years using the same design, engines and materials without changing a thing they would not be allowed to do so. If the car was to say as it was the car would have to be sold in the same manner as the Continuations. So they would be "kits" today. Would they not?

But again, you continue to totally miss the point and the argument. Not concerned nor do I care about the term "Kit". I don't care nor am I concerned about the term "replica" They are red herrings to me. Maybe not you but that's fine.

What's important to me is that it is a Shelby Cobra. Yes, of course it's not an "original" but factually, legally and as recognized by the "World Registry of Cobras and GT40s" a genuine Shelby Cobra. That's not derogatory towards any other brand its just a statement of undeniable fact. Some here unfortunately see it as a derogation of what they own but that is their issue. Not mine, nor does it change the facts. Some here see it as a threat to what they own. There issue not mine.

If you are stuck on the dogma of the only real Cobras were the ones built in the 60s that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion. Its just that the facts, law and the World Registry say otherwise.

[Joe's Garage]

Well said Buzz, I'm wondering if you could shed some light on the rights to use the "Cobra" moniker. As I understand it, Ford owns the Cobra Trademark and gave Shelby the rights to use it. Seems they probably gave AC Cars Ltd. the rights to use it as well for the AC Cobras sold across the pond. Evan says AC "was allowed to build AC Cobras under license and permission of SAI". Seems to me that permission would have come from Ford being the trademark owner? Yes, no, more to the story?