Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

There is no doubt I own an undisputed, bona fide, authentic, true etc Shelby Cobra. Can't be disputed. Period.

It's definitely a genuine or true REPLICA of a Shelby Cobra, being reproduced by a successor company to Shelby American, which started reproducing them in 1995.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by JoeT

real & original


not real and not original (CMC version)


current, real? continuation? but not original

I disagree. All the above are Indian Motorcycles. Clearly .

[Thor maine]

The watch on the left was given to me by my lovely wife and is my Sunday go to meeting watch. The one on the right I bought in 1984 at a pawn shop in Colorado while in college and has been my daily watch ever since.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

It's definitely a genuine or true REPLICA of a Shelby Cobra, being reproduced by a successor company to Shelby American, which started reproducing them in 1995.

While it is a replica of the original series it is also a Shelby Cobra. The car replicates the original Shelby Cobra as it must to be the same car. New. Old. Both nearly identical from SAI or is successor. See the World Registry. To say it is not a Shelby Cobra because it replicates the original series is in noting the obvious fact of what it is.

See Registry. It's all set forth very clearly.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

No it is a Shelby Cobra. The car replicates the original Shelby Cobra as it must to be the same car. New. Old. Both nearly identical from SAI or is successor.

"Nearly identical" is relative. The genuine Shelby Cobra replicas that began production in 1995, like yours, don't use the same materials as used in the 1960's. None of the steel, aluminum, interior, etc. is the same as the 1960's Shelby Cobras. But the CSX4000 shape and appearance is roughly approximate though.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

See the World Registry.

The Registry also lists Kirkham Cobras as "real" Cobras. You can draw all the parallels you want with AC, but as much as I love my Kirkham and the Kirkham company, they're not AC.

The Registry will change. I'm counting on it. Disaffected SAAC members will lead an uprising.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Jamo

A few years ago we had arrived in Paris on the fast train from London. I was using a cane because of a slightly bum knee, but more for effect so we could board flights early, jump to the front of the lines, etc. I can act "old man pain" real damn good (trust me, when you travel...take a cane).

Anyway...the French care about handicapped folks better than anyone. we went downstairs to the underground to look for restrooms. Wife had to wait in line with a coin to use a typical public restroom. Attendants saw the cane and led me to the high holy of public restrooms...only for the handicapped. A private sweet essentially. Wooden furniture, etc. the throne was wonderful...adjustable backrest with a table next to it with a collection of magazines...even some flowers. Nice prints of Paris landmarks on the walls, etc. It was about that time of day, so by god I took my time away from the hustle-bustle of train station crowds. I wished I could've ordered some coffee and some pastry, but oh well.

By the time I came out, I was met with one of those "looks." She had damn near gotten arrested...tried to take a picture of the line she was in and the attendants and an underground cop gave her some words that she didn't understand until she looked at a sign they were pointing at that she finally figured out (little pic of a camera with a red line through it) meant no photograph due to privacy concerns.

LMFAO...until I saw that "look" again.

LOL, good story Jamo. Regarding your little spy-cam, I'm wondering when google glasses are going to find their way inside the helmet at the track. A true driver's perspective, LOS to mirrors, gauges, negotiating traffic etc. Maybe they're already doing it.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

The Registry also lists Kirkham Cobras as "real" Cobras. You can draw all the parallels you want with AC, but as much as I love my Kirkham and the Kirkham company, they're not AC.

The Registry will change. I'm counting on it. Disaffected SAAC members will lead an uprising.

Glad Ned sees the value in simplifying what has turned out to be a real mess, thanks for sharing - I didn't realize he had tagged my post.

I have a feeling one particular "Ron" may also feel the same way, the time is ripe for a SAAC uprising Once I learned the scope of the registry's reach my immediate thought was owners of originals were seriously marginalized.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Once I learned the scope of the registry's reach my immediate thought was owners of originals were seriously marginalized.

Well, if you compare the 1987 SAAC Registry and the most recent version, all the modern era reproductions (SPF and CSX Daytona Coupes, Shelby and Kirkham Cobras and SPF GT40's) really have bloated what was once just one book, but now takes several humongous books.

You can make the modern era reproductions look similar, with sideoilers, toploaders, original Smith gauges, NOS this and NOS that, but the fact of the matter is that if you're willing TODAY to plunk down $160,000 (ish) for an alloy Shelby body or $100,000 for Kirkham body, you too, can call your Cobra a Cobra. Well, at least once you go through the PITA of emission testing exemptions and inspections, and hope your Cobra replica passes muster.

The entry fee for a 1960's Shelby Cobra is roughly around a $1,000,000 +/- and you can immediately drive off into the sunset on any road in America, if you so choose.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Glad Ned sees the value in simplifying what has turned out to be a real mess, thanks for sharing - I didn't realize he had tagged my post.

I have a feeling one particular "Ron" may also feel the same way, the time is ripe for a SAAC uprising Once I learned the scope of the registry's reach my immediate thought was owners of originals were seriously marginalized.

Well, SAAC can change the Registry if they choose, don't really care, but it doesn't change the fact that the Continuation Shelbys are genuine Shelby Cobras. The current Registry recognizes the obvious and is factually correct. So they would have to basically say, hey we were all wrong and explain why they were wrong. fine if they want to lose credibility by denying reality.

They may make original owners happy and non Shelby owners happy who will pile on and then swear allegiance to the Registry and then cite it non stop but it will alienate a lot of other members who own current gen Shelbys. Owners of originals shouldn't feel marginalized. They own originals. Clearly the brass ring. They just want to make sure no one else is recognized as owning genuine Cobras. Petty and selfish.

In the end, my title clearly says what it is and so does my id chassis plate. I don't need anyone else or any other club or organization to tell me what it is. The Registry deciding my car isn't a Shelby Cobra would be to deny the obvious facts.Just saying the 40th World Registry has it correct and fairly and logically dealt with the issue.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Well, SAAC can change the Registry if they choose, don't really care, but it doesn't change the fact that the Continuation Shelbys are genuine Shelby Cobras. The current Registry recognizes the obvious and is factually correct. So they would have to basically say, hey we were all wrong and explain why they were wrong.

They may make original owners happy and non Shelby owners happy who will pile on and then swear allegiance to the Registry and then cite it non stop but it will alienate a lot of other members who own current gen Shelbys. Owners of originals shouldn't feel marginalized. They own originals. Clearly the brass ring. They just want to make sure no one else is recognized as owning genuine Cobras. Petty and selfish.

In the end, my title clearly says what it is and so does my id chassis plate. I don't need anyone else or any other club or organization to tell me what it is. Just saying the 40th World Registry has it correct and fairly and logically dealt with the issue.

I don't think they'll (SAAC) have to admit to anything that haven't already incorporated into the Registry. Some humans had a marketing meeting and it went awry, and instead of "true replica", these falable humans decided on "continuation". "They'll sell better that way", they rejoiced.

SAAC and SAI can just have a mutual (or not mutual) parting of the ways. SAAC will track the originals and Shelby and SPF can handle tracking of the replicas. What's the big deal. Don't make things harder than they have to be. SAAC just disassociates itself with the modern era Shelbys, Kirkhams and SPF's. However, I highly doubt that any organization can do the brilliant job that the SAAC Registrars do. Good luck there.

As for titles, CA calls them all SPCNS or Specially Constructed Vehicles. States can call them whatever they want to call them. Every state is different. If CSX4206 were to get sold here in CA and someone is able to register it, though highly doubtful, since it's a completed kit car that cannot meet current safety and emissions requirements, then CA will call it an SPCNS.

[Thor maine]

100% Shelby Cobra 1/3 true replica kit car. That about say's it all. If AC and Shelby American and Ford got together and remade the Cobra , that would be a true, genuine, real-1,real deal COBRA!!! A Shelby Cobra made in South Africa or Poland or at McCluskey , is something else. Which is a 1/3 authentic replica kit car. But it is a Shelby Cobra.

[ASO544]

But isn't the process the same it was in the 1960s ?

AC LTD sends over body and chassis, SAI installed drivetrain, attached SA chassis plate and CSX # then sold car.

Now....

SPF sends over body and chassis, SAI installed drivetrain, attached SA chassis plate and CSX # then sold car.

Seems the same exact process other than those cars were titled by the year they were produced and the continuations are all titled as 65s I believe.

I do agree they are true "Shelby Cobras" ( especially the aluminum body ones) just as much as those built in the 60s but misleading to think or declare they are real 60 Shelby Cobras... They are really 90s, 2000s, etc....Shelby Cobras but we all know why they are registered as 65s

My $.02s

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I don't think they'll (SAAC) have to admit to anything that haven't already incorporated into the Registry. Some humans had a marketing meeting and it went awry, and instead of "true replica", these falable humans decided on "continuation". "They'll sell better that way", they rejoiced.

SAAC and SAI can just have a mutual (or not mutual) parting of the ways. SAAC will track the originals and Shelby and SPF can handle tracking of the replicas. What's the big deal. Don't make things harder than they have to be. SAAC just disassociates itself with the modern era Shelbys, Kirkhams and SPF's. However, I highly doubt that any organization can do the brilliant job that the SAAC Registrars do. Good luck there.

As for titles, CA calls them all SPCNS or Specially Constructed Vehicles. States can call them whatever they want to call them. Every state is different. If CSX4206 were to get sold here in CA and someone is able to register it, though highly doubtful, since it's a completed kit car that cannot meet current safety and emissions requirements, then CA will call it an SPCNS.

You are mixing things up. Not going to bother trying to straighten it out since it is clearly pointless with you. Very simply the current Registry is accurate and correct in it's analysis and definitions.Your statements are half truths as to what the Registry states and misleading.

Those reading this are free to a argee with you. That's fine but if they want to know what the World Registry says I would urge them to read it for themselves unless they are content with the skewed versions of it from you. I could quote chapter and verse here and it would make 0 difference.

Hey if SAAC wants to dump the Continuation Shelbys from the World Registry that's up to them. They certainly won't need to have a Registar for them any more. They can toss all that info in the garbage. If they don't want to bother keeping track of the second gen Shelbys that's no skin off my nose or likely any other Continuation owner's nose. Moreover if they decided they no longer were going recognize the Continuation Shelbys as they should be I.e. True Shelby Cobras my bet would be their owners would lose any interest in providing them any information on their cars or membership. Last SAAC convention saw maybe 10 original cars and didn't seem that well attended. Seems they would want to be attracting new members and growing interest not alienating it. But hey, that's their business.

Yeah SAAC could decide just to keep track of the originals and exclude the second gen Shelby Cobra and let Shelby keep track of the "Continuation Cobras." Shelby Americans view of it for sure. They should then change there name to TOOSAAC (The Original Only Shelby Amer. club).

As far as Kirkhams are concern I gave you my view of it and the Registrys. In the end I don't own a Kirkham. You do. Couldn't care less what SAAC does with them and you are free to see you car as the largest fake pos on the planet. matters not one wit to me.

As far as how California or any state claaaifys any of these cars is completely valueless to the issue.

Even the newbie ASO544 stated it simply and correctly unlike the detractors here. Even he gets it.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

The watch on the left was given to me by my lovely wife and is my Sunday go to meeting watch. The one on the right I bought in 1984 at a pawn shop in Colorado while in college and has been my daily watch ever since.

Cool...push comes to shove, nothing beats a diver for good looks and toughness.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

You are mixing things up. Not going to bother trying to straighten it out since it is clearly pointless with you. Very simply the current Registry is accurate and correct in it's analysis and definitions.Your statements are half truths as to what the Registry states and misleading.

Those reading this are free to a argee with you. That's fine but if they want to know what the World Registry says I would urge them to read it for themselves unless they are content with the skewed versions of it from you. I could quote chapter and verse here and it would make 0 difference.

Hey if SAAC wants to dump the Continuation Shelbys from the World Registry that's up to them. They certainly won't need to have a Registar for them any more. They can toss all that info in the garbage. If they don't want to bother keeping track of the second gen Shelbys that's no skin off my nose or likely any other Continuation owner's nose. Moreover if they decided they no longer were going recognize the Continuation Shelbys as they should be I.e. True Shelby Cobras my bet would be their owners would lose any interest in providing them any information on their cars or membership. Last SAAC convention saw maybe 10 original cars and didn't seem that well attended. Seems they would want to be attracting new members and growing interest not alienating it. But hey, that's their business.

Yeah SAAC could decide just to keep track of the originals and exclude the second gen Shelby Cobra and let Shelby keep track of the "Continuation Cobras." Shelby Americans view of it for sure. They should then change there name to TOOSAAC (The Original Only Shelby Amer. club).

As far as Kirkhams are concern I gave you my view of it and the Registrys. In the end I don't own a Kirkham. You do. Couldn't care less what SAAC does with them and you are free to see you car as the largest fake pos on the planet. matters not one wit to me.

As far as how California or any state claaaifys any of these cars is completely valueless to the issue.

Even the newbie ASO544 stated it simply and correctly unlike the detractors here. Even he gets it.

Evan there aren't any half truths in what I say. You say that garbage to save face. I quote directly from a page in the Registry. Just the whole truth from me. You keep saying Registry this and Registry that but you quote nothing. And define nothing. You just say "See the Registry." That's just plain BS. I quote the Registry nearly verbatim. So quit telling everyone here your half truths.

Bottom line is that it's 30-50 years later, your Shelby is being reproduced with different parts by a different company. You own a genuine replica of a Shelby. Even the SAAC Cobra Registrar agrees as do many many others within SAAC.

[fordracing65]

Like I said, what a douche...

[Jaydee]

Have you pulled out the antenna to 'test' it?
Larry

No it hasn't got one. They replaced it with a tiny compass.
It weighs 225 grams. bloody heavy.
I also have genuine citizen divers with dive logger, amongst others. Love my watches.
JD

[4pipes]

It doesn't matter what Evan says. The market price of the cars define what the cognizenty already know. Real Cobras sell for somewhere north of $700k. Aluminum continuation cars sell for about $19-$20k more than Kirkhams they're built on. There, isn't that the elephant in the room? People will pay a little more for a Kirkham if it came from Shelby and has a CSX number. Doesn't make them original cars, just a little more desirable.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Very simply the current Registry is accurate and correct in it's analysis and definitions.

Sure page 30 separates the definition of a "Kit Car or Replica" from the Shelby and Kirkham, but the definition of "Kit Car or Replica" actually fits the Shelby and Kirkham replicas quite well, the definition being "Any car with a body which approximates the original Cobra shape..."

The Kirkham and Shelby replicas fit this definition nicely too.

But, there's more...

Page 708 states "This left true replicas-like Shelby's CSX4000's-to come up with another name to describe themselves. Because he did not want his cars devalued by using the term 'replica', Shelby chose 'Component Cobra'. This separated his cars from all the rest, the riff-raff..."

Or how about page 23 "...presently there are more Cobra-like vehicles being built, some built by Carroll Shelby himself..."

And later on the same page (page 23): "Any type of Cobra-like vehicle, from CSX3000 completion cars to the CSX 4000/7000/8000 component Cobras, to AC MKIVs. to Kirkham Cobras..."

There, I'll quote chapter and verse, since you NEVER do. Skewed my a$$. There's enough references to Shelby and his replicas or Cobra-like cars than you care to admit.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

In the end, my title clearly says what it is and so does my id chassis plate. I don't need anyone else or any other club or organization to tell me what it is.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

As far as how California or any state claaaifys any of these cars is completely valueless to the issue.

I only mentioned title classifications, because seemed to get some level of satisfaction that your state classifies your car as a Shelby Cobra. WhoopDeeDoo! Shelby Cobra replicas owners in CA gets their cars classified as SPCNS. WhoopDeeDoo! States can call them chimpanzees, if all I care, doesn't make it anything but a replica.