Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[jhv48]

What about 1993-2004 mustang "cobras"? They're built by Ford, not Shelby.

Are they using the name illegally?

[Paul F]

Ok, it turns out I am ignorant and stupid. Indeed, there it is, after combing through the trademarks again, I found it. Ford does have a trademark for Cobra applicable to automobiles. But Shelby does not. So no one that has a roadster that was built after the '60s can call their vehicle a Cobra. That word is reserved for cars made by Ford. [edit] keep in mind that these trademarks come and go over time. [end edit]

Ford has it trademarked under several filings. They have it trademarked for a lot of stuff.

Valve caps, Jewelry, Floor mats, Cloth patches for clothing, watches, pens, pencils, pen and pencil holders, markers, playing cards, ] [ trading and collector cards, ] [ stationery folders, desk top holders, ] calendars,[ pocket pen shields, paper weights, letter openers, posters, note pads, self-adhering note paper pads, note pad holders, pocket secretaries, paper identification luggage tags,] decals, reproduction lithographic prints, bank checks, [ checkbook covers, automotive history books, coloring and activity books, paper napkins, paper banners, paper flags, postcards, bumper stickers, coasters made of paper, paper table cloth, gift wrapping paper commemorative plates, glassware,] mugs, [steins, bottle openers, paper plates, paper cups, vacuum bottles,] [ insulated containers for food or beverage, ] [portable coolers,] [ thermal cups, ] [can wraps, plastic coasters, trivets, serving trays not of precious metal, corkscrews, squeeze bottles, brushes with ice scrapers, ornament replicas of vehicles in glass, crystal, and ceramic]. metal goods; namely, key rings, key fobs, money clips, non-luminous and non-mechanical signs, [ banks, decorative boxes, ] and license plates * , all for use in connection with the promotion of automotive vehicles *.

[twobjshelbys]

Simple. This took me three minutes on TESS. Ford owns the Cobra trademark. Shelby is licensed to use it for the Shelby Cobra roadster.

http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfi...05:xr387a.2.80

Noone else can attach "cobra" to their replica. Ask Factory Five.

Why use 4 references when 1 will do.

[jhv48]

So, how does SAIC get to use the term?

Special permission from Ford? Enquiring minds want to know!

Oops, asked and answered.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Paul F

... Ford does have a trademark for Cobra applicable to automobiles. But Shelby does not. So no one that has a roadster that was built after the '60s can call their vehicle a Cobra ...

Are you sure? That's a mouth full, the RAMIFICATIONS are COLOSSAL

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Are you sure? That's a mouth full, the RAMIFICATIONS are COLOSSAL

Like he said, you can't. The "colossal" ramifications are why the word "Cobra" appears on Cobras from Shelby American, and no one elses. Like I said, several tried and lost. Shelby lost the "trade dress" (look and feel) but Ford still owns the Cobra trademark. Factory Five lost, Superformance (Hi Tech) entered into a license agreement although I don't think they use "Cobra" in the description of the car.

Everyone uses the term "Cobra" colloquially to refer to the cars, much like people use the term Crescent Wrench (trademarked) as the generic term for an adjustable wrench or "Kleenex" for tissues. The USPTO has declared that such usages do not diminish the owners rights.

It is an urban legend/old wives tale that Shelby sold the Cobra trademark to Ford for $1. It is Ford that enforces the use. They have lots of lawyers.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Other than an "ethereal" plane I certainly don't see any except for "respect" but that is a two way street.

You keep mentioning the word "respect" as it relates to Shelby Cobra replica owners. As Inigo Montoya once said "I'm not sure you know what that word means."

Seriously, a car ownership doesn't earn my respect. People do. Just because you own a Shelby CSX4000 replica and/or Ned owns a COX, doesn't mean I'm going to respect either of you more for owning those cars. That's nuts.

If you treat others with respect, then others will treat you the same. At least that's the theory. Reality is something else.

[trularin]

So, first; I need to go strip off that Ford part number Cobra emblem on my car as Ford did not build it.

Second, what does it say about those license plate frames? I do not want to have to get that whole replica thing going that Ron started on license plate frames.



This thread is so factual...you just want to...

Get another bag of popcorn.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Like he said, you can't. The "colossal" ramifications are why the word "Cobra" appears on Cobras from Shelby American, and no one elses. Like I said, several tried and lost. Shelby lost the "trade dress" (look and feel) but Ford still owns the Cobra trademark. Factory Five lost, Superformance (Hi Tech) entered into a license agreement although I don't think they use "Cobra" in the description of the car.

Everyone uses the term "Cobra" colloquially to refer to the cars, much like people use the term Crescent Wrench (trademarked) as the generic term for an adjustable wrench or "Kleenex" for tissues. The USPTO has declared that such usages do not diminish the owners rights.

It is an urban legend/old wives tale that Shelby sold the Cobra trademark to Ford for $1. It is Ford that enforces the use. They have lots of lawyers.

Agreed, updated reply to CompClassics for accuracy ...

... you stated that enthusiasts with Replicas 'sign-in' to car events and shows with; Cobra, 427 Cobra, Shelby Cobra etc. which is dishonest. Agreed, if everybody was to be honest the sign-in roster would have; SPF Replica, ERA Replica etc. As for the Kirkhams, maybe Kirkham Cobra Replica is acceptable due to the symbiotic relationship? For the Shelby CSX4000/6000 cars you would see Shelby Cobra + some discriminator (like what's on the MSO "Component Vehicle") so as to separate themselves from the Originals. Only Originals can sign-in with Shelby 289/427 Cobra or something similar (with no additional qualifier required).

... if you are going to be honest about your "Replica" or "Shelby Cobra".

Nice rabbit-hole excursion Paul F.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Wow. I didn't have anything shelby on my cobra, bc quite frankly it's not a Shelby. But if I did, I'm pretty sure I'd think twice about keeping them. Was the guy that big a flog...?

Mine "famously" (back during the legal wars) carries no bodging that references Shelby or Cobra (except for the Shelby manifold that Shelby cast its name on), and only refers to Kirkham on various items like the expansion tank and arruminum gearshift knob I stole from Davey boy. I could give a sh!t about anyone coming after me legally...actually dared them to. Marsh and I did a pic where he pretends to pry a Cobra emblem off the Butler I had. Let's just say there was a deficiency of respect for the Old Man back in those days that still lingers a bit in the minds of many that lived through it.

That's why these little amateurish word wars that continue in this thread are so so damn asinine, truth be told. Many of the current participants have no freeking clue.

...just saying, and having said that, it's been said.

[trularin]

Jamo, those pink fuzzy slippers with the rabbit ears??? Are those original or replicas?



Sorry - could not resist.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Like he said, you can't. The "colossal" ramifications are why the word "Cobra" appears on Cobras from Shelby American, and no one elses. Like I said, several tried and lost. Shelby lost the "trade dress" (look and feel) but Ford still owns the Cobra trademark. Factory Five lost, Superformance (Hi Tech) entered into a license agreement although I don't think they use "Cobra" in the description of the car.

Please...you don't know enough to be talking about the legal battles and what their results are, so kindly be quiet. And no, I am not going to to waste my time explaining the lurid details. If you don't know for sure...be quiet.

That's it...no further warnings to anyone. I'm about to slam this thing shut and bounce the next folks that ever bring up this stupid argument again.

Try me...

[Joe's Garage]

For those who want to stick it to the big wrist, big watch guys.
I don't need no stinking watches - Bumphrey Hogart

Ring Clock
... orange or blue energy-saving LED lights for complete visibility throughout the day and night. Simply rotating the ring around your finger will give you the current time with its separate hour, minute, and second indicators.



Ring Clock: From Wrist to Finger - IPPINKA

[rodneym]

Dimis,
Have you ever met a champion? I mean a true, world class champion.
How about a captian of industry? No, not a rich guy but a real mover and shaker.
These aren't your average people. Most would probably call them A-holes.
As much of a "snake oil salesman" that he was, he was still a thousand times more of a doer than a talker. His, "get the F out of my way" and "nobody can take what's mine" attitude is what makes outliers champions, and champions outliers. Doen't mean he's the kindest or smartest guy in the room but he was the most capable.
We're all doing what we can, but he did what he had to do. It can be argued all day long and sure there's exceptions, but people like that don't necessarily make for easy going nice folk.
Do I love what he did? Absolutely.
Would I want to do business with him. Likely not.
Nice guys finish last.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Please...you don't know enough to be talking about the legal battles and what their results are, so kindly be quiet. And no, I am not going to to waste my time explaining the lurid details. If you don't know for sure...be quiet.

That's it...no further warnings to anyone. I'm about to slam this thing shut and bounce the next folks that ever bring up this stupid argument again.

Try me...

Whoa. Wait just one minute there buster. 1. This man said nothing wrong nor in an insulting manner in the post you are referring to. 2. Dos Shelbys is 1000% correct in his statement.

Now let me make an observation. Joe'sGarage misused and misapplied to his fallacious argument a snipet from a Federal decision dealing with trade dress over and over and over and yet you said nothing. Two Shelbys accurately states the result of legal decisions and you threaten to ban him. I call Bull$hit on that.

You allowed pages and pages and personal attacks on me without lifting a finger to the keyboard. You threatened to ban me (likely will be banned for this, oh well) because of the other threads I posted yet allowed the attacks to go on for days and days and pages and pages and then threaten to ban me. Further take a look at the posts after my OP and see who was really creating the problem and dumping all over my OP. Hint. It wasn't me. It was a concerted group effort of others.

If you didn't like those other threads you should have closed them down or locked them immediately and sent me an PM to stop whatever it is that got your nose out of joint. You didn't. Instead you threaten to ban me days later.

So far no one has hit the reason for calling pretend Cobras "Cobras" except Two Shelbys. Nailed it.

JoesGarage: Hey aren't you the guy that kept posting the picture of the little clown popping back up as representing me???? You want me to restate what I've said before over and over and over as to the legal basis and factual basis for the Continuation Cobras being a Cobra/Shelby Cobra and genuine Cobra. Really? Get a Registry and read it.

[Joe's Garage]

... administrative leave anyone?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Dimis,
Have you ever met a champion? I mean a true, world class champion.
How about a captian of industry? No, not a rich guy but a real mover and shaker.

Yep, and I prefer not to even socialize with them. I don't even like going out to dinner with them. They can make even a fine French dinner a stressful event. Your point is very well taken.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Whoa. Wait just one minute there buster. 1. This man said nothing wrong nor in an insulting manner in the post you are referring to. 2. Dos Shelbys is 1000% correct in his statement.

Now let me make an observation. Joe'sGarage misused and misapplied to his fallacious argument a snipet from a Federal decision dealing with trade dress over and over and over and yet you said nothing. Two Shelbys accurately states the result of legal decisions and you threaten to ban him. I call Bull$hit on that.

You allowed pages and pages and personal attacks on me without lifting a finger to the keyboard. You threatened to ban me (likely will be banned for this, oh well) because of the other threads I posted yet allowed the attacks to go on for days and days and pages and pages and then threaten to ban me. Further take a look at the posts after my OP and see who was really creating the problem and dumping all over my OP. Hint. It wasn't me. It was a concerted group effort of others.

If you didn't like those other threads you should have closed them down or locked them immediately and sent me an PM to stop whatever it is that got your nose out of joint. You didn't. Instead you threaten to ban me days later.

So far no one has hit the reason for calling pretend Cobras "Cobras" except Two Shelbys. Nailed it.

JoesGarage: Hey aren't you the guy that kept posting the picture of the little clown popping back up as representing me???? You want me to restate what I've said before over and over and over as to the legal basis and factual basis for the Continuation Cobras being a Cobra/Shelby Cobra and genuine Cobra. Really? Get a Registry and read it.

And there were people who knew that statement was incorrect and made no effort to correct it. To his credit, he eventually did so.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Yep, and I prefer not to even socialize with them. I don't even like going out to dinner with them. They can make even a fine French dinner a stressful event. Your point is very well taken.

Well, lookie who showed up. Look what the cat dragged in. And not even a mention of an ERA. Wow.

Mighty fine weather we're having.

Hey, I forgot to mention it to you guys, and gals too, but I picked up my new CA "Legacy" license plates the other day. The 1960's style black/yellow license plates, so I'm hoping more people will think that I have an original genuine authentic real Cobra.

[rodneym]

Roddo,
Black and Yellow plates on a polished KMP?
Are you a Chuck Taylors with a tux kinda guy?