Continuation Cobras & SAAC

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Al G

Some of is put more value on the round tube chassis as it provides an experience closer to the original cars. Way back at the beginning of the other thread someone said the "best" car is the one that meets what the owner wants. A round tube chassis was best for me and many others.

The bodies are not the same. Both are fiberglass but the shapes are different. There are many details in the construction that make the cars different. But I understand details seem to be beyond your comprehension level.

Fascinating, but irrelevant to the question asked - why we have these "Shelby is not worth it" types. RodKnock's post talks to the aluminum Shelbys, mine talks to the glass Shelbys. The differences you talk about are in the noise compared to cost. You don't have to agree with it nor would I expect you to as you have bought a CSX. But let's be honest, the "Shelby Plaque" is probably 95% of why you bought yours - and that's ok, we get it.

[Al G]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Fascinating, but irrelevant to the question asked - why we have these "Shelby is not worth it" types. RodKnock's post talks to the aluminum Shelbys, mine talks to the glass Shelbys. The differences you talk about are in the noise compared to cost. You don't have to agree with it nor would I expect you to as you have bought a CSX. But let's be honest, the "Shelby Plaque" is probably 95% of why you bought yours - and that's ok, we get it.

I don't even understand this post. However, since you seem to think you can read my mind figure out what I think of you. That will save me posting it and getting banned.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Fascinating, but irrelevant to the question asked - why we have these "Shelby is not worth it" types. RodKnock's post talks to the aluminum Shelbys, mine talks to the glass Shelbys. The differences you talk about are in the noise compared to cost. You don't have to agree with it nor would I expect you to as you have bought a CSX. But let's be honest, the "Shelby Plate" is probably 95% of why you bought yours.

Sorry sir, but I can't agree.
As a non-csx owner I don't see it your way.
They don't even look like same to a trained cobra eye.
Both are nice, but different. Kirkham v CSX however very hard to tell without getting under the skin, and sometimes even then

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Sorry sir, but I can't agree.
As a non-csx owner I don't see it your way.
They don't even look like same to a trained cobra eye.
Both are nice, but different. Kirkham v CSX however very hard to tell without getting under the skin, and sometimes even then

... and you agreeing is not a prerequisite to why some see Shelbys over priced

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Tuto and everyone else is free to see and describe their car as they wish. That's their business as long as your not passing it off as something its not which would be dishonest.

Tuto feels his car is not a "real" Cobra but he paid all that money for a "plaque" and mystic and distinction???? . Certainly twisted reasoning to me. Ok, that's fine with me, he can feel and see his car that way. His belief and position is at odds with the Registry, the facts and law. He is applying the term "replica" in it's commonly misused manner to his Shelby but hey... good for him if it makes him happy. Thankfully Rodknock found a continuation owner that see his car as a "fake" Shelby Cobra made by Shelby with all the mystic and distinction that separates it from the rest. But Hallelujah anyway!

Twisted logic of any car owner doesn't change things one bit.

The current production Cobras are "true" replicas as defined by Websters. Never said they weren't. Agreed. However, no other can be a true "replica" of a Shelby Cobra. However, all the others can be "replicas" as that term is used and commonly understood, i.e. fake Cobra.

I know a lot of you just got lost again.

Registry explains it all. But I guess the Registry is kaput anyway so I'm just gonna throw mine out.

The 8+ year old SAAC website statement explains it all...OOPS, that went "X-Files" (i.e. disappeared without a trace).

If I were a betting person, I'd bet that the next Registry will change that whole CSX replica minutia.

Evan, just because someone has a different viewpoint from you doesn't mean you have to insult them by saying their logic is twisted. You know, it could be yours and not their logic.

[Blue66]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

... and you agreeing is not a prerequisite to why some see Shelbys over priced

These cars are worth what someone will pay period.. Very simple. Overpriced ??? Maybe to you they are !! Others look at it an think "I like that a lot" and BUY it like me without a second thought. Different strokes for different folks.
Ok.. goin out for a hell ride an freeze to death BUT it will be fun !

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Blue66

These cars are worth what someone will pay period.. Very simple. Overpriced ??? Maybe to you they are !! Others look at it an think "I like that a lot" and BUY it like me without a second thought. Different strokes for different folks.
Ok.. goin out for a hell ride an freeze to death BUT it will be fun !

If you've owned a CSX, and sold it, you will generally find that there will be a reward rather than a penalty at the end of the rainbow.

I bought my Cobra for the simple reason that I fit in it. Couldn't get comfortable in a SPF. Aluminum (either CSX or KMS) was out of the question due to the regional weather considerations - hail and aluminum don't get along well.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

If you've owned a CSX, and sold it, you will generally find that there will be a reward rather than a penalty at the end of the rainbow.

I can understand why some folks choose the Shelby brand over others, because each of us has a value equation in our minds. Even though I'm a lifelong genuine Shelby Cobra and Mustang fan, I saw no value in purchasing the Shelby brand, OTOH, Evan sees value.

But, in terms of the alloy replicas, Shelby and Kirkham, since Kirkham provides the entire 50th Anniversary Edition, there's an easy comparison, what would be your guess when those two cars are re-sold in the secondary market? Do you think that approximately $65,000 Shelby premium will increase, remain the same or decrease when the original owners sell their cars?

If I were a betting person, I'd put my money on the Shelby premium declining from $65,000. If so, then there's a "penalty" to buying a Shelby replica. All specs being equal, besides the CSX plaque of course.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Blue66

These cars are worth what someone will pay period.. Very simple. Overpriced ??? Maybe to you they are !! Others look at it an think "I like that a lot" and BUY it like me without a second thought. Different strokes for different folks.
Ok.. goin out for a hell ride an freeze to death BUT it will be fun !

yeah, supply and demand with costs adjusted accordingly, we all get it.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

... If I were a betting person, I'd put my money on the Shelby premium declining from $65,000. If so, then there's a "penalty" to buying a Shelby replica. All specs being equal, besides the CSX plaque of course.

I'll join you on that bet, the only money to be "made" on any of these cars is if you're good at flipping an undervalued purchase.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I can understand why some folks choose the Shelby brand over others, because each of us has a value equation in our minds. Even though I'm a lifelong genuine Shelby Cobra and Mustang fan, I saw no value in purchasing the Shelby brand, OTOH, Evan sees value.

But, in terms of the alloy replicas, Shelby and Kirkham, since Kirkham provides the entire 50th Anniversary Edition, there's an easy comparison, what would be your guess when those two cars are re-sold in the secondary market? Do you think that approximately $65,000 Shelby premium will increase, remain the same or decrease when the original owners sell their cars?

If I were a betting person, I'd put my money on the Shelby premium declining from $65,000. If so, then there's a "penalty" to buying a Shelby replica. All specs being equal, besides the CSX plaque of course.

By the way, Kirkham built cars tend to appreciate, or at least hold their own, as well. The appreciation of both may in part be due to the price increases of new ones (but I'm not looking to explain it just describe the market). It may also be supply and demand - lead times on new alloy cars from either is now in 2 years, right? While not a lot of either come to market often, it may be that people choose an existing car over the new build due to the wait time.

The value was there in the 2008 time frame - a painted Kirkham and a CSX alloy were within 10% of each other. An exactly equipped glass SPF and a Shelby CSX were within 10% of each other. I thought the paint jobs on the CSX glass cars was better. (Mine was a carbon fiber HST car, and at the time there were a few dealers that would only accept HST cars for their inventory.)



That said, the alloy cars have diverged in price [Shelby alloy now way more than Kirkham] but joined in manufacturing. Alloy cars used to be built in house, then at Kirkham to Shelby specs, but now they're just off the shelf which makes it harder to justify, [but that difference is reduced signifcantly if you paint the Kirkham]. The conjoined history hasn't been around long enough to set a history yet. However, I will guess they will maintain their separation. You really have to understand that the largest majority of CSX buyers don't even know about this place, and a fair who do, avoid it, so are not influenced by the info here (whether that info is right or wrong.)

The glass cars have a higher spread now than then too, but I prefer the CSX like I said because I can fit in it. At the time, the carbon fiber was especially appealing because of the hail.

It is quite likely another Cobra will be in the hunt in the future. Which one it will be is TBD. I do know it will NOT be 427-based. Who is invited to the bake off will be a topic for the time and will start just like the last time: fitting of the suit (car) at the tailor shop (car shows).

By the way, there was a polished CSX7000 car at the Mothers booth at Barrett Jackson in Vegas. I thought it looked horrible - scratches and swirls everywhere. I was there the day before the area was open to the public and thought maybe Mothers was going to polish it up. It just sat there like it was. I don't think it did either Shelby or Kirkham a service.

[MYF]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

By the way, Kirkham built cars tend to appreciate, or at least hold their own, as well. The appreciation of both may in part be due to the price increases of new ones (but I'm not looking to explain it just describe the market). It may also be supply and demand - lead times on new alloy cars from either is now in 2 years, right? While not a lot of either come to market often, it may be that people choose an existing car over the new build due to the wait time.

The value was there in the 2008 time frame - a painted Kirkham and a CSX alloy were within 10% of each other. An exactly equipped glass SPF and a Shelby CSX were within 10% of each other. I thought the paint jobs on the CSX glass cars was better. (Mine was a carbon fiber HST car, and at the time there were a few dealers that would only accept HST cars for their inventory.)

That said, the alloy cars have diverged in price [Shelby alloy now way more than Kirkham] but joined in manufacturing. Alloy cars used to be built in house, then at Kirkham to Shelby specs, but now they're just off the shelf which makes it harder to justify, [but that difference is reduced signifcantly if you paint the Kirkham]. The conjoined history hasn't been around long enough to set a history yet. However, I will guess they will maintain their separation. You really have to understand that the largest majority of CSX buyers don't even know about this place, and a fair who do, avoid it, so are not influenced by the info here (whether that info is right or wrong.)

The glass cars have a higher spread now than then too, but I prefer the CSX like I said because I can fit in it. At the time, the carbon fiber was especially appealing because of the hail.

It is quite likely another Cobra will be in the hunt in the future. Which one it will be is TBD. I do know it will NOT be 427-based. Who is invited to the bake off will be a topic for the time and will start just like the last time: fitting of the suit (car) at the tailor shop (car shows).

By the way, there was a polished CSX7000 car at the Mothers booth at Barrett Jackson in Vegas. I thought it looked horrible - scratches and swirls everywhere. I was there the day before the area was open to the public and thought maybe Mothers was going to polish it up. It just sat there like it was. I don't think it did either Shelby or Kirkham a service.

Tony -

You mentioned you fit into the CSX but not a SPF. Would you please elaborate on that?

Thanks,

Mike

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by MYF

Tony -

You mentioned you fit into the CSX but not a SPF. Would you please elaborate on that?

Thanks,

Mike

I have done so on several occasions. The angle of the steering wheel and pedal positions and where I needed the seat positioned put the steering wheel firmly on my lap. It's just a difference in how they are built. They varied a little between instances (they are hand build after all) but in general the SPF wheel was just too low.

I encourage everyone buying a Cobra to not make a final decision until you SIT IN THE CAR YOU ARE BUYING!!!

[Blue66]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

If you've owned a CSX, and sold it, you will generally find that there will be a reward rather than a penalty at the end of the rainbow.

I bought my Cobra for the simple reason that I fit in it. Couldn't get comfortable in a SPF. Aluminum (either CSX or KMS) was out of the question due to the regional weather considerations - hail and aluminum don't get along well.

Have had "rewards" on all the Shelbys and the CSX 3000 we had. I have a glass car because we drive it everywhere. We also drive down a 1/2 mile dirt road to get to the lake. Brings a smile every time we go out in it.

[MYF]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I have done so on several occasions. The angle of the steering wheel and pedal positions and where I needed the seat positioned put the steering wheel firmly on my lap. It's just a difference in how they are built. They varied a little between instances (they are hand build after all) but in general the SPF wheel was just too low.

I encourage everyone buying a Cobra to not make a final decision until you SIT IN THE CAR YOU ARE BUYING!!!

Good advice - Thank you.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

Now that is as clear as Missouri Mud.

Read the Registry. Clear as a bell.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

The value was there in the 2008 time frame - a painted Kirkham and a CSX alloy were within 10% of each other. An exactly equipped glass SPF and a Shelby CSX were within 10% of each other.

IIRC, when I bought my Kirkham, the alloy CSX price was roughly $100,000 and Kirkham polished roller was around $70,000. Again, if memory serves. I had the extra $30K-ish, but between the fact that I had zero interest in owning a replica with the Shelby name, just because it was a Shelby, and the Kirkham reputation for excellence and engineering, there was really no easier decision than the Kirkham. For me and me alone. And I had an extra $30K for an engine, transmission and some upgrades.

And if I needed a new shifter handler, new speedo, new starter switch, etc., whatever, they would just send it quickly to me for free. No questions asked.

The fiberglass CSX and Kirkham were about the same price, at that time, and I even had an opportunity to get a great deal on what is now Bernica's CSX4250, but passed. I learned quickly that I wouldn't be happy with a fiberglass replica.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

IIRC, when I bought my Kirkham, the alloy CSX price was roughly $100,000 and Kirkham polished roller was around $70,000. Again, if memory serves. I had the extra $30K-ish, but between the fact that I had zero interest in owning a replica with the Shelby name, just because it was a Shelby, and the Kirkham reputation for excellence and engineering, there was really no easier decision than the Kirkham. For me and me alone. And I had an extra $30K for an engine, transmission and some upgrades.

Now wait just a second. Let's compare apples to apples. I'm betting yours (like many) is not painted (I've never seen it). Take your bare naked lady and get it painted. When I inquired about a full paint job to get my packer car repainted it was about 20K.

And I got equivalent parts service from Shelby.

I can't say the same for Roush though but that story is documented elsewhere.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Read the Registry. Clear as a bell.

And you better read it quickly, or soon, because the next Registry is about to shrink in a big way.

Facts, Fraud, Ned The Curator, Posting 8+ year old SAAC Website Statement That Has Been Completely Revised But Not Disclosing It, Logic, "Certain Liberties Were Taken With The Registry" and "Let's Call A Spade A Spade."

I'll check back in later.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Read the Registry. Clear as a bell.

I'm sure A-Snake is familiar with the registry. Just take that convoluted statement of yours and remove the parsing of words and selective spin.
It's a simple question with a binary answer, either it is or it isn't - which is it?