Fraudulent CSX 3160 for sale in L.A.

[Nedsel]

Heads up: a fruadulent Cobra incorrectly identified as CSX 3160 is currently being offered for sale by a probate attorney in Los Angeles. The car is claimed to be part of an estate sale, and is described as bright blue with a white center stripe. The car may be a CSX 4000-series car with an altered VIN. It has a 402 cubic-inch Roush small-block engine and its price alone - $280,000 - should make you realize it is not a legitimate 60's 427 Cobra. The real CSX 3160 is still owned by the same individual who bought it back in 1971.

Please pass along this information to anyone who may be looking at a "real" 427 Cobra. Thanks.

[Mark IV]

Ned, are you saying a "CSX4000" is NOT a "real" Cobra?!?!

Shocked I say, shocked! I am sure there are a couple of people here who will be flabbergasted to find that fact out.

And honestly if anyone buys it as CSX3160 I would say they probably are getting what they deserve for being that thick.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

And honestly if anyone buys it as CSX3160 I would say they probably are getting what they deserve for being that thick.

Definitely agree with this. The first call should always be to SAAC HQ about any SFM or CSX.

Fortunately, the $280,000 sales price is certainly a dead giveaway. And even if the new buyer was an idiot, bought it, he or she wouldn't be hurt too badly depending on the details of course. It's the $1,000,000-$5,000,000 range that can really be a bummer.

[SunDude]

Is there a weblink to a "for sale" listing for this car?

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by SunDude

Is there a weblink to a "for sale" listing for this car?

Most likely, as big an idiot as anyone must be to attempt passing off a clone as the real car, the seller is not posting ads in print or on line so as to avoid having the fraud traced back to him. An individual in San Diego was contacted by the seller in the belief he might be a potential buyer, however he was too knowledgeable to be taken in by the scam and wisely tracked down the owner of the real CSX 3160. He put the word out that the car is NOT for sale.

[Mark IV]

Don't listen to Ned on this, "Wally" has personally inspected and authenticated the car and suggests you purchase it quickly!

[Ron61]

Just a question but if some person with no knowledge did purchase this car as CSX3160 and had paper work stating that, Couldn't that person and also the owner of CSX3160 then sue the seller for Fraud? It seems to me that listing a car as an original and also giving a CSX number would really be stupid.

Ron

[jhv48]

Suing and collecting are two different things.

[Maricopa]

Some folks would say that 4 series are worth 280K....

[Nedsel]

Yeah. And the idea of "due diligence" enters the picture, as in, if 427 Cobras with a CSX3xxx VIN are selling around a million bucks, did you think buying one for $280,000 was just lucky?

[Bernica]

Feds and the DMV don't take altering a VIN number lightly. Let alone trying to sell one. I believe they seize the car and crush it. And you get a free room at the Crowbar Hotel.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Heads up: a fruadulent Cobra incorrectly identified as CSX 3160 is currently being offered for sale by a probate attorney in Los Angeles. The car is claimed to be part of an estate sale, and is described as bright blue with a white center stripe. The car may be a CSX 4000-series car with an altered VIN. It has a 402 cubic-inch Roush small-block engine and its price alone - $280,000 - should make you realize it is not a legitimate 60's 427 Cobra. The real CSX 3160 is still owned by the same individual who bought it back in 1971.

Please pass along this information to anyone who may be looking at a "real" 427 Cobra. Thanks.

So, there is no "ad" no link on line but it's an estate sale through a probate attorney? There is no ad in print or on line because they are afraid the sale will be traced back to "them"? The title and bill of sale would have to be from the estate. Not hard to trace a fraud in the sale.

Has anyone from SAAC called the seller or the probate lawyer to investigate?

An original 60's Cobra for $280K with a Roush small block no less?. Yeah, that CSX 3000 vin ought to be very convincing. Every CSX 4000 Shelby Cobra I know of has a big block except for one.

Sounds like the information here is hearsay built on hearsay built on hearsay of course with built in speculation involving a current production Cobra and innuendos.

Nice.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

So, there is no "ad" no link on line but it's an estate sale through a probate attorney? There is no ad in print or on line because they are afraid the sale will be traced back to "them"? The title and bill of sale would have to be from the estate. Not hard to trace a fraud in the sale.

Has anyone from SAAC called the seller or the probate lawyer to investigate?

An original 60's Cobra for $280K with a Roush small block no less?. Yeah, that CSX 3000 vin ought to be very convincing. Every CSX 4000 Shelby Cobra I know of has a big block except for one.

Sounds like the information here is hearsay built on hearsay built on hearsay of course with built in speculation involving a current production Cobra and innuendos.

Nice.

Cant't an attorney be disbarred for mis-representation if he's out trying to peddle it?

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Cant't an attorney be disbarred for mis-representation if he's out trying to peddle it?

An attorney in NJ and likely California will be disbarred for being convicted of a crime involving dishonesty or being complicit.

Someone from SAAC should investigate that offered sale and put the attorney on notice if in fact there is an issue with what is being offered for sale. The attorney may not know anything about Cobras. A $280K asking price and a small block Roush is an immediate red flag to any halfway knowledgable buyer looking for an original series Shleby Cobra. Just MHO.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

An attorney in NJ and likely California will be disbarred for being convicted of a crime involving dishonesty or being complicit.

Agreed...in California.

Sounds to me like was there to provide the information. I would hasten to say that it would be in SAAC's best interest to get more involved unless requested by the authorities, and be engulfed in some immunity.

JMHFO.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Agreed...in California.

Sounds to me like was there to provide the information. I would hasten to say that it would be in SAAC's best interest to get more involved unless requested by the authorities, and be engulfed in some immunity.

JMHFO.

Jamo, other than posting a warning here and on the SAAC website - which makes sure the VIN comes up in a Google search - I'm not sure how to get more involved, especially as we do not know the supposed probate attorney's name or contact information.

[Nedsel]

Real 1, you may misinterpret any part of my original post at your convenience. Nothing in it is hearsay. A man here in San Diego was contracted by the seller, who identified himself as a probate attorney and offered him what he claimed was CSX 3160. He did not take down the caller's name as he was not interested in the car being offered him, nor does he know why he was contacted, beyond the fact that he is a known collector. This individual went to the trouble of finding the last known owner of the car as listed in the SAAC Registry, and that is who contacted me. Which is why I posted the note above. It's that simple and straightforward.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Real 1, you may misinterpret any part of my original post at your convenience. Nothing in it is hearsay. A man here in San Diego was contracted by the seller, who identified himself as a probate attorney and offered him what he claimed was CSX 3160. He did not take down the caller's name as he was not interested in the car being offered him, nor does he know why he was contacted, beyond the fact that he is a known collector. This individual went to the trouble of finding the last known owner of the car as listed in the SAAC Registry, and that is who contacted me. Which is why I posted the note above. It's that simple and straightforward.

Why thank you Ned. Yes, everything you say I interpret (not misinterpret) at my convenience. Your position on the "other issue" was noted by me to be patently bias from the outset and gee, what do you know...you were even kind enough to finally admit it after it was smoked out. Your personal views on the "other issue" moreover directly conflict with SAAC's World Registry. Apparently you have no use for the Registry definitions.

Seems there is a pattern with you. You now have your own personal definition of "hearsay" too which conflicts with the classic definition of "hearsay" in the Fed. R. Civ. Pro. which nearly every State has adopted or modeled their rules of evidence on. I have no interest or desire in educating you on this issue since apparently authoritative texts and rule books don't seem to mean much to you anyway.

Not surprising the other "legal" genius liked your post above.

As far as having nothing to go on you do know the probate attorney (or "supposed" attorney as you later stated) is in Los Angeles. Right? You are accusing people of fraud based on blatant raw hearsay regarding what the attorney then later described by you as the "supposed" attorney (oh, I'm sorry your definition of hearsay is different) then said to your friend who then said it to you and now you are saying that to us. All perfectly reliable. ....Oey.

How about contacting the authorities in Los Angeles or DMV to see if any vehicles have been transferred into the title of Estates recently? They can't pass title otherwise.

Also this "collector" or (as I am now saying) "supposed" collector,... was he called on his cell phone? If so, he didn't need to take the number down. Its likely stored on his phone's history. If on a land line, does he have a system that stores numbers? Did you ask? Further, since this "supposed" collector knew it was clearly a scam did he try and obtain any info such as the car's previous owner, whether it had clear title, in whose name it was titled at present etc... He didn't even get the attorney's name or write it down knowing it was a scam... and he's a collector???? But wait....of course, he contacts Ned the SAAC 3000 registrar to sound the alarm with no real info to relay. Yup. Makes perfect sense. Funny, the attorney didn't identify himself at all by name?. Sooo he just said , "Hi I'm a probate attorney (skip name here) as soon your collector friend answered the phone and then stated " I have an Cobra to sell, CSX 3160 for 280K with a short block Roush". That's it???? He just volunteered and blurted out this particular detailed info? This info wasn't provided by way of any questions or discussion? This detailed info was provided yet nothing else? You "collector" friend,... and just curious here.....is he routinely contacted with scams involving rare original cars? I mean is this routine for him??? Gee, if not, it would seem to me he might remember more from this discussion. $hit like that doesn't happen every day with him... does it???. Kinda stands out I would think.

Yeah, this all sounds "real" believable to me. Yup. Seems to me perhaps you were sold a bill of goods on the story.

I have no issue with posting a warning but perhaps your "alarm" should have been more "equivocal".

Further, if there is a person dumb enough to think he is buying an original Cobra for $280K with a Roush short block likely that person is clearly too dumb to do any due diligence at all so your "alarm" is not likely to reach that group of dummies.

[RodKnock]

Oy vey.

Ned didn't post a link? That sounds eerily similar.

Chillax Evan. It's a PSA.

[Bernica]

If the real owner of 3160 is already aware of this, then maybe he should be letting the District Attorney and Sheriff in San Diego know about it. I know I would!

Or Los Angeles...as that appears where Nedsel the attorney is located..