Self-driving cars...

[Dangerous Doug]

I read an article recently about Google's "self-driving cars".

What is this world coming to?

The gist of the article is that the self-driving cars (SDC) are very cautious and slow, tend to over-react to inputs like joggers on the other side of the street, but though boring, seem "safe" to ride in. Like a sterile capsule.

I thoroughly enjoy the experience of driving. Don't let my ClubCobra handle mislead you ("Dangerous Doug"), as I've matured my driving style has smoothed out and I take less risks, but still enjoy the man-and-machine experience. I couldn't imagine life without the exhilaration of the wind in my hair as I work my way through the gears, feeling the pull of acceleration. My Cobra is my place of refuge, and I find sheer joy in winding through a curvy country road, feeling very much alive.

Perhaps the SDC's would work for the "can't get the smartphone out of my face" crowd who'd like to sit in a sterile capsule and experience life online while being escorted to their cubicle---kind of like their Mom driving them to school two blocks away.

Are the current generation of twenty-somethings truly this disconnected from life as to not appreciate the sensation and freedom of driving?

DD

[Tommy]

Doug,
The future challenge for us manual drivers goes well beyond what younger generations want in their cars. Here's why. One of the great potential advantages of self driving cars is the ability to have more cars going faster and safer on our existing road system. But that depends on ALL the cars being computer controlled and networked together. For example, if there are 250 such cars moving down the freeway and a patch of open highway appears ahead of them, all 250 can accelerate simultaneously to the same higher speed without generating the accordion motion common in manually driven cars. They can also shuffle the cars that need to take the next three exits to the right places to do that without impacting the rest of the pack. But it only works if all the cars are networked AND self driving.

I can imagine a time when only networked self driving cars are allowed on stretches of high demand roadway. And I can imagine that trend will grow until manually driven cars are considered as welcome as horse drawn carriages are on today's roads. ... When most car owners have never driven manually and old cars are no longer welcome on the roads, our hobby will be effectively over.

[*13*]

The generations coming up behind us seem to have a strong interest in a car free society. Some of that generation will never get the chance to sit in a classic performance car, or the experience pulling through the gears of a spirited sport racing machine. The roar of carburetors, the whine of a gearbox, gasoline in your nose or wind in your face are things they'll never understand. It's our hobby to preserve.

[Dangerous Doug]

Tommy: Sound Utopic, with 250 SDC's zipping down a freeway in a tight-packed formation, rearranging based upon exit needs. Then a deer emerges from the side of the road (or an Elk, or a Bison...) and catastrophe strikes as the SDC's reaction time isn't sufficient and a major pileup occurs, leaving passengers injured, killed. Engineers recode. Lawyers begin to salivate.

SDC's may seem like a panacea for overcrowded highways, but there will always be problems.

Nevertheless, you're right. When I think of the logical end to the SDC development, I see myself as the lone, unwanted gasoline-powered vehicle driven by a human on the road.

On the other hand, SDC's won't be cheap, so does driving one become the sole right of the privileged class? What will an SDC do when non-SDC driver's act hostile?

*13*: Funny that the generation that was driven everywhere by their Mom in a giant SUV is now interested in a car-free society. I had to ride my bike or my skateboard to get around---another fun, wind-in-your-hair man and machine experience.

I guess Rush with their "Red Barchetta" science fiction song was not too far off the mark.

DD

[REAL 1]

Hopefully self driving technology is many years off. How will it be implemented? How will it deal with non SDC's?, emergency situations? etc....

A lot of issues still yet to deal with.

Another way of libs and geeks seeking to sanitize the world from humanity.

I'm sure the insurance company will still come up with a way to keep charging premiums

[Tommy]

Predicting the future is not so hard if you don't have to give a specific date on which it happens. I can't tell you what day the temperature will first drop below freezing in Minnesota, but I know it WILL happen this winter. .... Likewise, I don't know how the transition to self driving networked cars will proceed, but I'm convinced that, baring a meteor strike, pandemic, or other great disaster, it will happen.

[Buzz]

There'll be a suitable place for automated motorways in the future but it won't be everywhere. As long as there is rural area and open space between urban/high traffic areas, there will be plenty of room for non-networked, self driven cars. Folks will still have to be able to "get off the grid" and drive to their individual destinations.

The tendency to react with paranoia and hostility whenever a new technology is introduced is based upon the fear that it will totally replace or "take away" what you currently have. Think of the people who enjoyed the freedom of getting around on horseback back in the day when the railroad or them new fangled horseless motor carriages were being introduced - "They're gonna take our horses away and pack us all into these machines and we'll only be able to travel on roads and railroad tracks!! We'll have no freedom any more!!"

PS - with even current technology its not a big stretch to imagine that automated, networked cars should be able to detect and react far quicker, safer and more precisely than a bunch of unpredictable old fashioned cowboys in their primitive vee-hickles to things like a deer entering the roadway.

PPS - Even NASCAR can benefit from the new tech. Imagine a long column of cars endlessly circling in perfect formation with only inches between them. Hey - thats just like today! Except that the race controllers will be able to decide when its a good time to throw in a wreck and let the right car move to the pole. All for the good of the sport, of course.

[Paul F]

I can't wait for self driving cars. If they work out the bugs, they will open up so many possibilities. Crashes will go down, people with disabilities will be able to travel freely. Send your kid off to school and have the car come back by itself. No more deaths and disabilities from drunk drivers. Drive 24 hours to your destination. Roaming taxis that know how to get anywhere. Send your car out to get a bag of groceries or that beer you ran out of. It will be a radical change. As big as the internet. It will have impacts and applications we can't imagine.

But there will be an equal number of negatives. It will put autobody shops out of work. Will insurance rates go down? Will insurance rates for those that drive manually go up? Will that put more insurance employees out of work? The junk dealers and repair parts businesses will suffer. Some truck drivers will be out of work. Will there be any pride in ownership or will they become utility boxes like refrigerators - only to transport bodys.

The courts will have some interesting cases.

It will be fascinating.

[DanEC]

I read an article about self-driving cars a couple months ago that from memory discussed most of the accidents or events to date with them resulted from problems in dealing with erratic drivers in other cars. They seem to get rear-ended a lot.

Google self-driving car involved in first injury accident | Fox News

I kind of have my doubts about this technology. There's no doubt it works and works fairly well but somehow I'm re-minded of the bogus Audi unintended acceleration fiasco from the mid-80s (right after we bought my wife a new Audi 5000S - year right, a 110 HP motor can overpower 4 wheel disc brakes). Audi barely survived that idiotic affair here in the US. There will be a series of accidents and injuries - probably caused by other drivers - and the personal injury lawyers will show up and the lawsuits will start claiming the cars and technology are at fault. After awhile insurance costs and public perception of the technology will take a big hit after a few accident victims show up on network news and websites (if it's on TV or the internet - it must be true) - and before long they won't be able to sell one for any amount of money and manufacturers will drop them as fast as they can. At least that's my forecast.

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by Paul F

I can't wait for self driving cars. If they work out the bugs, they will open up so many possibilities. Crashes will go down, people with disabilities will be able to travel freely. Send your kid off to school and have the car come back by itself. No more deaths and disabilities from drunk drivers. Drive 24 hours to your destination. Roaming taxis that know how to get anywhere. Send your car out to get a bag of groceries or that beer you ran out of. It will be a radical change. As big as the internet. It will have impacts and applications we can't imagine.

But there will be an equal number of negatives. It will put autobody shops out of work. Will insurance rates go down? Will insurance rates for those that drive manually go up? Will that put more insurance employees out of work? The junk dealers and repair parts businesses will suffer. Some truck drivers will be out of work. Will there be any pride in ownership or will they become utility boxes like refrigerators - only to transport bodys.

The courts will have some interesting cases.

It will be fascinating.

Found it fascinating already, especially when they showed how a sharp software guy with a cellphone could hack them on 60 minutes. Made it turn any drection and screech to a stop at will. Should be real fascinating when junior gets run into a wall on his way to school because of some bored hacker in Bosnia.

[Buzz]

It's worth bearing in mind we're talking about test mule prototypes in a very early stage of development. I'm sure software security is on the to-do list, but nothing is completely foolproof. I saw a video recently showing a guy with a cellphone remotely activating the brakes on a C7 Corvette through a hack into the dynamic stability control system.

[NewYorkGuy]

nobody misses the typewriter or fax machine.

in 3 years, you'll be able to buy an electric car from the Apple Store.
self-driving cars will be mainstream when we are dead...

[fordracing65]

I have been wanting my own driver for years, let me get drunk on the way to work, sign me up...

[fordracing65]

Think of all the DUI lawyers and ambulance chasers that will be out of business, no need for them, no more DUI's or traffic violations, sounds perfect to me, especially for daily driving..

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

nobody misses the typewriter or fax machine.

Sorry bro, that ain't the correct analogy.
For me, its more akin to losing the pen.

I can see advantages of motorways/freeways in town.
Particularly as insurance companies have a vested interest to reduce their expense claims on nose to tail incidents so no doubt they will loby away.

On principle, I'm against most all things that enables the dumbing down humanity.
Eg: Blind spot indicators, self park assist, abs, traction control... Blah, blah, blah... the list goes on. It's all done under the guise of "safety" but has exactly the opposite effect.

I hate knowing that I have to share the road with someone who will become conditioned to not even bother turning their head to check their blind spot, and lack the basic skills to park their car, or brake safely in an emergency, or even accelerate without spinning their wheels.

[Buzz]

I understand where you're coming from, with the loss of reliance on real human skills, but where do you draw the distinction between that concern vs. the tangible benefits of technological advances that really do make things better? You have ABS on your list - would you also have opposed disc brakes, power steering, EFI, paddle shifters, GPS, Doppler Radar, the Internet, matches and Kevlar body armor?

[Bernica]

So, when I roll up on one of these in my car, what do they do?
Just pull over, I hope....

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Buzz

... I saw a video recently showing a guy with a cellphone remotely activating the brakes on a C7 Corvette through a hack into the dynamic stability control system.

Nothing a properly built faraday cage can't fix. If you can't talk to it, you can't screw with it.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Buzz

I understand where you're coming from, with the loss of reliance on real human skills, but where do you draw the distinction between that concern vs. the tangible benefits of technological advances that really do make things better? You have ABS on your list - would you also have opposed disc brakes, power steering, EFI, paddle shifters, GPS, Doppler Radar, the Internet, matches and Kevlar body armor?

Everyone is going to have a different measure. My car of choice is a cobra for a reason. It purposefully lacks bells and whistles that Bing and chime, like when you leave your keys in or lights on or don't do your seatbelt up... I'm big on taking responsibility.

So for mine:
disc brakes - not opposed.
power steering - not opposed
EFI - not opposed (not opposed to electric powered motor cars either).
Paddle shifters - yes opposed. They're ridiculous in anything other than an F1 car.
GPS - yes opposed. Seriously, they cause more accidents than you think.
Doppler Radar - not on principle, yes on implementation.
Internet - sometimes.
matches - not opposed, that said, I know people who can't use them either
Kevlar body amour - not required where I live... Yet! We don't have shootings on a daily basis. However due to our legal systems not dealing with criminals anywhere near harsh enough, they may become a future requirement.

[fordracing65]

I just want a Google car to pick me up and drive me to work everyday while it sit in the back... and I will drive my cobra any other time, on the non Google streets...