Blown motor - which Long Block to buy?

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

But somehow Summit Racing has them in stock and ready for immediate shipping?
Ford Racing 427 C.I.D. 450HP X-Head Crate Engines M-6007-X427FFT - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
Ford Racing 427 C.I.D. 535 HP Crate Engines M-6007-Z427FRT - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

FWIW, I support what others have said about checking with KC and Lykins.

You should call and order one to prove me wrong.

[frankym]

I really don't think the Jegs / Summit Racing option feels right. Its kind of like Rev Tec vs S&S motors for harleys. To save 2500 - 4,000 for a crate 427 SBF vs roush, keith craft, southern automotive, danbury, etc, summit and jegs likely get some assemblies from china. I have no basis to make that claim, it just feels suspicious to me to have that large a differential.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by frankym

cash burn, i'm open to selling. I have a ton of photos that you can find looking at old posts from me. I have had 3 superformances, the car we are talking about is a solid red, SPF #205. it has a retro fitted CSX rollbar to look like the original car. It has upgraded shocks. paint is pristine. I am open to selling it as is with a blown motor. car also has the oil accumulator setup plus halon. But I'm not interested in sacrificing it - I priced a brand new roller with these options and it is $57k. I would ask for 40k for it as is - but I am sure people would engage me and then offer 25k, which i have no interest in wasting time doing. It's almost always better to sell a completed car, but hey, if someone comes very very close to 40k, i'm a seller.

I am leaning toward keith craft on the motor for $12k, i can get the keith craft fully built 427R from carb to pan - it is a 4 bolt main dart sportman block with 585hp.

I don't think that's workable. That's an earlier car. I actually thought it was the titanium one in your gallery. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

BTW is that one of those CHP 427s using a production block?

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by frankym

I really don't think the Jegs / Summit Racing option feels right. Its kind of like Rev Tec vs S&S motors for harleys. To save 2500 - 4,000 for a crate 427 SBF vs roush, keith craft, southern automotive, danbury, etc, summit and jegs likely get some assemblies from china. I have no basis to make that claim, it just feels suspicious to me to have that large a differential.

The price difference can be attributed to what is not included.

[olddog]

You wont go wrong with Keith.

For street driving and I would say auto-cross too, I like a flat torque curve over the rpm range. Nothing more frustrating than mashing the throttle at 2000 rpm and getting a slow dog, at 3000 rpm getting pleasant power, and at 4000 rpm getting a tire shredding monster that you cannot control. Peaky engines can come on so sudden that they are difficult to drive. That said a few people like it and have no problems.

The other factor is what rpm do you cruise at the most? Well maybe what is the lowest rpm that you cruise at, would be a better question. You want the engine to be smoothed out before that rpm. It is a bit frustrating to have your engine wanting to buck and hop, when you are trying to cruise.

That said a choppy cam is music to my ears, but I want it to smooth out by 1800 rpm at the latest.

Hope one more opinion helps.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by frankym

Considering how light these cars are, it makes sense to me (logically) to get more of the torque and hp later in RPMs. Having had a stroker side ouler 468, with radial 15 inch tires, it just broke the tires at slower speeds. Curious to hear from others who own a keth craft sbf 427 585hp config. If the power curve is unsatisfying, what is your recommendation. Going to send a check to KC tomorrow. Please keep fredback coming.

Have Keith build you a 445 Windsor like he did for Pman1961's setup. That motor is a beast.....has great power curve and comes on like a freak up to 6500. It really shouldn't be anymore than one of his 427w setups. I think it makes 615hp/599tq or something like that. I have the 427w 585hp and it's too peaky for me. It's fun when your at the higher rpm but you spend about 1% of your seat time at that rpm unless it's a race car. Perry's car uses a hydraulic roller and it has the radical idle you are looking for. If I was getting a complete new motor or doing a complete rebuild that is what I would get or even a 460w after driving it

[frankym]

Can someone provide info about who Pman1961 is. It would make it easier for me to reference with Keith Craft. I did not see a 445 CID option nor did it come up in conversation with tony at keith craft.

[Ron61]

If you want to see about what Pman1961 has just do a search for him and hiS Profile will give you the engine and everything as he has it listed there. And it does say it is a 455.

rON

[frankym]

I want to call keith craft and reference a specific build by name. But i will check out Pman1961's cc profile. Thanks

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

You should call and order one to prove me wrong.

Yeah, I'll get right on that! LOL

Regardless, the point being they show both models available for 'immediate shipping', and I've never had a problem with ordering from Summit. I've placed a number of orders with Summit and not once have they ever been unable to ship something when they showed it as 'immediate shipping'.

YMMV

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Ace23

Have Keith build you a 445 Windsor like he did for Pman1961's setup. That motor is a beast.....has great power curve and comes on like a freak up to 6500. It really shouldn't be anymore than one of his 427w setups. I think it makes 615hp/599tq or something like that. I have the 427w 585hp and it's too peaky for me. It's fun when your at the higher rpm but you spend about 1% of your seat time at that rpm unless it's a race car. Perry's car uses a hydraulic roller and it has the radical idle you are looking for. If I was getting a complete new motor or doing a complete rebuild that is what I would get or even a 460w after driving it

The great part about dealing with an engine builder like KC or Lykins is you can have a dialogue about what you're looking for. If you want a high RPM race motor that happens to be 'peaky', then you can have that. OTOH, if you're looking for a torque monster that's good for daily driving and cruising, then they'll build one to meet those needs. That's certainly part of the discussion, along with what it's going in to, what drive train you're using, axle ratio, driving style, etc.

With crate motors, of course, you're pretty much getting what the factory produces for a broader range of needs - take it or leave it.

[Winchester67]

For street driving and I would say auto-cross too, I like a flat torque curve over the rpm range. Nothing more frustrating than mashing the throttle at 2000 rpm and getting a slow dog, at 3000 rpm getting pleasant power, and at 4000 rpm getting a tire shredding monster that you cannot control. Peaky engines can come on so sudden that they are difficult to drive. That said a few people like it and have no problems.
XXXXXX

Probably guys like me that grew up on two stroke dirtbikes and RZ 350 streetbikes...flat until they get up on the pipe, then practically unmanageable. Big fun when I was a kid...but I am 50 now. Give me a broad torque band for the street.

[blykins]

When you call, ask for Tony or Lance.

Lance owns the place now, Keith is not involved anymore. From what Tony told me, it's now called "Craft Performance Engines".

[frankym]

I spoke to tony today. He said hecan build the 445 stroker- actually its a 452 stroker now. But he said the criticisms I'm hearing regarding the high rev low end missing torque on the 427 has everything to do with the intake. The victor junior single plain intake will create that effect of a monster coming out above the 4,000 rpm range. He ssid if I elect the air gap edelbrock dual plane intake, i will get 570hp but a much crisper throttle and torque reaction from 2,000 rpm up.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by frankym

I spoke to tony today. He said hecan build the 445 stroker- actually its a 452 stroker now. But he said the criticisms I'm hearing regarding the high rev low end missing torque on the 427 has everything to do with the intake. The victor junior single plain intake will create that effect of a monster coming out above the 4,000 rpm range. He ssid if I elect the air gap edelbrock dual plane intake, i will get 570hp but a much crisper throttle and torque reaction from 2,000 rpm up.

Go with that 452 and don't look back! I am by NO means an engine builder but the different people I have consulted with all point to the Victor Jr. as being a good match for the 427 cubic inch motors.......I too was trying to find someone to tell me to use one of the dual plane RPM air gap manifolds and I was told it would suffer on the top end. I guess the only real way to know is follow the lead of your builder or actually dyno the motor and then do the intake swap and run it again. If I was confident switching to the dual plane would only knocked 15Hp off my motor and shift my power curve down 2000rpm's earlier I would have tried it. In my specific case I think throwing a dual plane on would have made it worse.....I think my camshaft profile 252I / 262Ex at 112 LSA installed at 112 ICL would have been at odds with a dual plane intake selection. I still would go with more cubic inches when its the same price. Good luck and keep us posted

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

Yeah, I'll get right on that! LOL

Regardless, the point being they show both models available for 'immediate shipping', and I've never had a problem with ordering from Summit. I've placed a number of orders with Summit and not once have they ever been unable to ship something when they showed it as 'immediate shipping'.

YMMV

It comes down to frequency. When you use a supplier 3 times a week over 10 years spending up to 300k a year, ya learn somethings... Exceptional company but there are some holes and some assumptions that suppliers will have stock and ship same day on certain numbers.

They might have one in stock though if you have to have it

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by blykins

When you call, ask for Tony or Lance.

Lance owns the place now, Keith is not involved anymore. From what Tony told me, it's now called "Craft Performance Engines".

That assplains why emails to Keith or his wife bounce back. Good to know.

[undy]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

That assplains why emails to Keith or his wife bounce back. Good to know.

No loss there... His product was/is good... but the man, didn't care much for him.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

That assplains why emails to Keith or his wife bounce back. Good to know.

I guess Keith finally got what he wanted.......OUT.

[mdross1]

Originally Posted by olddog

You wont go wrong with Keith.

For street driving and I would say auto-cross too, I like a flat torque curve over the rpm range. Nothing more frustrating than mashing the throttle at 2000 rpm and getting a slow dog, at 3000 rpm getting pleasant power, and at 4000 rpm getting a tire shredding monster that you cannot control. Peaky engines can come on so sudden that they are difficult to drive. That said a few people like it and have no problems.

The other factor is what rpm do you cruise at the most? Well maybe what is the lowest rpm that you cruise at, would be a better question. You want the engine to be smoothed out before that rpm. It is a bit frustrating to have your engine wanting to buck and hop, when you are trying to cruise.

That said a choppy cam is music to my ears, but I want it to smooth out by 1800 rpm at the latest.

Hope one more opinion helps.

A place where so many want to be a in a car that totally makes them happy especially when mashing the throttle and expecting instant response. A lot of enthusiasts have to rely on friends or technicians to get these results. Others have the expertise to build cars and the drivetrains to get the results they seek making the hobby that much more gratifying.

I guess I should add that building ones own hot rod and having it perform to their expectation leaves one with a gratification that is hard to put to words.

Either way a hobby is a way for all of us to escape to place that that's good for the soul and proven that you just might live a little longer for it. I for one know that when my day comes I will have a smile on face.

Mike