Small Volume Car Makers Law Change

[Tom Kirkham]

This is a game changer. Companies will be able to sell up to 325 turn key cars a year.

Small-volume carmakers get a big break in Motor Vehicle Safety Act | Autoweek

[twobjshelbys]

There is already a topic on this subject:

NEWS: New bill in US Congress would allow for turnkey replicas

[LMH]

The part that worries me is will my car that I build at home have to pass a federal emissions standard? Am I now confined to using a modern create engine with emissions equipment on it?
Larry

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by LMH

The part that worries me is will my car that I build at home have to pass a federal emissions standard? Am I now confined to using a modern create engine with emissions equipment on it?
Larry

No, check out the other topic, but in a nutshell this would allow small manufacturers, to build a completed vehicle (with power train) so long as that power train meets year-of-manufacture emissions standards, up to 325 per year.

Tom, are you going to offer a completed vehicle?

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by Tom Kirkham

This is a game changer. Companies will be able to sell up to 325 turn key cars a year.

Small-volume carmakers get a big break in Motor Vehicle Safety Act | Autoweek

The way it reads, only GM emission engines qualify for now? How will this affect the "New" 3000 series Cobras if at all?

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Bernica

The way it reads, only GM emission engines qualify for now? How will this affect the "New" 3000 series Cobras if at all?

It won't. The 3000 series are stated to be off-road only. They use an original style FE engine, which is not emissions compliant to today's standards, but since it's off road it would not apply.

The real target is not Cobras (where part of the culture is that smelly loud engine) but to the "hot rods" like the 32 Ford from Factory Five and the new Mustangs from Revology.

I would expect Ford to offer a compliant Coyote soon (and thought they had stated it already was, but maybe that got lost somehow).

[Bernica]

So, I guess folks get to figure out where and how to hide the catalytic converters etc on their hot rod...

[fordracing65]

A Cobra and a Cat, no thanks...

[*13*]

I don't know why but, I always feel threatened by laws with the word "emissions" in them. These are recreational vehicles & barely a spec in the polution problem.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Bernica

So, I guess folks get to figure out where and how to hide the catalytic converters etc on their hot rod...

Fit the side pipes with catalytic converters. See this link: Catalytic Converters

The Cobra builders in the U.K. and Australia have been facing this for a while now, and AK even makes a special converter than installs ahead of the side pipes: Exhaust Side Pipes 5" with Catalytic Converters - AK Sportscars - Cobra Replica Kit Car

Magnaflow makes 4" OD converters in 2.5", 3" and 3.5" inlet versions (smaller as well), that s/b able to be fitted to side pipes: MagnaFlow Universal Spun Catalytic Converters 54959 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
MagnaFlow Universal Spun Catalytic Converters 54956 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

Flowmaster makes them as well, as do a number of other manufacturers.

Vibrant makes a 3.5" inlet, 4.5" OD 'Ultra High Output' converter - high flow for high HP engines.

Bottom line is that, while converter placement in side pipes is probably not the ideal location, there are 'off the shelf' solutions available. I'm sure Superformance or other 'Small Volume Manufacturers' could also get custom converters built if that was necessary to sell additional cars.

Given the sound deadening / muffling which occurs in catalytic converters, would side pipe mufflers even be necessary or would the converters be enough?

[twobjshelbys]

This legislation is "in addition to". It in no way affects the status quo of the Cobra manufacturers space, be they "almost all assembly required" or "finished rollers". Existing regs for them are not changed. [Although they could stand some unification.]

[twobjshelbys]

I still assert that the pipes will be under-car. It's really hard to hide the external fore and aft O2 sensors.

[Bernica]

I just think the Cat Converters are just the tip of it all. Then an ECU and all related wiring. Then a "compliant" engine with all of the related sensors, evap control...etc etc. THEN, you get to go get it smog tested every 2 years! (At least in CA). What do you do with something simple like your gas cap?

I'm sure this is a windfall for many hotrod builders, but I guess I am just still trying to understand....

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

This legislation is "in addition to". It in no way affects the status quo of the Cobra manufacturers space, be they "almost all assembly required" or "finished rollers". Existing regs for them are not changed. [Although they could stand some unification.]

Yes, but once this is in place, someone will get an itch and decide that for example, the California SB100 program is no longer necessary and shut it down. Then someone will come along and say, "this is good, we don't need any other options. SEMA gets to keep people employed (which is the main 'justification' for the legsilation) and we can eliminate more new poluting cars. Why its a win-win. "

Then goodby kit cars.

[*13*]

Originally Posted by Paul F

Yes, but once this is in place, someone will get an itch and decide that for example, the California SB100 program is no longer necessary and shut it down. Then someone will come along and say, "this is good, we don't need any other options. SEMA gets to keep people employed (which is the main 'justification' for the legsilation) and we can eliminate more new poluting cars. Why its a win-win. "

Then goodby kit cars.

& that's exactly it. It's much easier to get things done incrementally.

[Bernica]

I think Ronald Reagan said it best with his "Nine most terrifying words" speech...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhYJS80MgYA[/ame]

[mikeinatlanta]

Tom,
Have you read the full law? Would be interested in you take on the license agreement section and how it may apply within our hobby (cobra, coupe), especially with regard to past law suits on the subject. Would also be very interested in Jamo's take.

[Buzz]

Man - you guys are a bunch of skeptics!! Here's me thinking "Wow, great - now companies like say, FFR and others will be able to offer a decently priced turnkey Cobra with a Coyote (or better yet an LS-7 ) and open up a whole new market segment of enthusiasts who can't imagine trying to build a car themselves; and other companies will be able to produce and sell some awesome, innovative new limited-production cars."

Meanwhile you're all seeing another government conspiracy hiding behind every blade of grass, and what's really happening is they're coming to take our Cobras away!

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Man - you guys are a bunch of skeptics!! Here's me thinking "Wow, great - now companies like say, FFR and others will be able to offer a decently priced turnkey Cobra with a Coyote (or better yet an LS-7 ) and open up a whole new market segment of enthusiasts who can't imagine trying to build a car themselves; and other companies will be able to produce and sell some awesome, innovative new limited-production cars."

Meanwhile you're all seeing another government conspiracy hiding behind every blade of grass, and what's really happening is they're coming to take our Cobras away!

I honestly hope everything you said is true (except the LS7 part).

[*13*]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Man - you guys are a bunch of skeptics!! Here's me thinking "Wow, great - now companies like say, FFR and others will be able to offer a decently priced turnkey Cobra with a Coyote (or better yet an LS-7 ) and open up a whole new market segment of enthusiasts who can't imagine trying to build a car themselves; and other companies will be able to produce and sell some awesome, innovative new limited-production cars."

Meanwhile you're all seeing another government conspiracy hiding behind every blade of grass, and what's really happening is they're coming to take our Cobras away!

I lived in CA 13 years. Try building a classic car with a crate motor there & you'll warm to our skepticism. It's coming. The question is, how many years/decades & how does it happen.