Hot Running Windsor based 427 FFR Roadster

[madmaxx]

Well I don't smoke, already exercise, "make" adequate $$, guess my New Years resolution will be to improve my gramaticall aptitude. Trust me when I say grades 1st through 5th are the most important.

Thanks for the politically correct "learn how to spell dumbass"

[TButtrick]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Must have been a cross wind, shoot your car is frictionless, you don't need fuel, sell the technology.

OK but I found that post to be a bit disturbing.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

... "learn how to spell dumbass"

That was one of the first words I learned how to spell.

[TButtrick]

Well you could write "dumbass" or "dumb-ass" hyphenated. The benefit of using "dumb-ass" hyphenated is that you can interject additional adjectives in between to further describe the noun. Here's an example:

You dumb, mother f***ing ass, you have no idea what the f**k you're talking about you dumb c**k sucking a**hole. Very effective.

[jhv48]

I'm lost, is this all about my frictionless Kia?

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by jhv48

I'm lost, is this all about my frictionless Kia?

Depends. Is it overheating?

[mrmustang]

Ok, let's go through the basics, and please answer as detailed as possible:

Does your lower radiator hose have a spring installed?
Which Ford water pump do you have?
Which pulley kit do you have?
Picture of how you have the belts routed.
What carburetor or fuel injection set up do you have installed?
What distributor do you have installed?
Which Spal fan?
Which gauges do you have?
Which senders for the gauges do you have?

We can go from there.


Bill S.

Originally Posted by rhunt

Just completed my FFR build with Ford Racing 427 Windsor. 6.5 miles on the odometer. All components are new. Std AFCO aluminum radiator with home built shroud and Spall fan. Puller fan. 160 deg F thermostat currently used, but have also tried no thermostat. No difference to max oil & water temps. Ford std. water pump with OD pulley. Used original Smiths electric water & oil temp gauges & sending units from my racing MG. Manifold location for water temp & oil pan location for oil temp. 50/50 water glycol with 2 cans of H2O Wetter. Ambient temps now 65 deg F in TX, water temp hits 210 deg F & oil temps hits 215-200 deg. Laser shot of radiator show about 180 deg F. All air burped out of system, 10 quarts of oil in engine, oil cooler and filter. This is way too hot for my liking especially when summer temps here will hit 95 to 100 deg F. Could both sending units be bad? Any opinions are appreciated.

[hinoonaz]

Wait a minute! What happened to the discussion about red velvet cake vs chocolate cake. I am a current and frequent member of weight watchers and want to know the rest of the story!

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by hinoonaz

Wait a minute! What happened to the discussion about red velvet cake vs chocolate cake. I am a current and frequent member of weight watchers and want to know the rest of the story!

Working on using the chocolate as a boundary layer between two layers of red velvet. If I can keep the big air pockets out the temps under control it should turn out great. Still not sure how the convection oven works as I hear that there is no airflow near the surface of my cake.



EDIT: Maybe it just needs a better fan.



And for those who think chocolate is the way to go. Please: No fake vs real, white vs dark chocolate debates.

[madmaxx]

I tried a reduction in profanity for last year New Years resolution, by noon on January 2nd I had given up...

Just a data point, I have owned three SPF with 427SBF. I live in the asshole of the US, which is Houston. One issue I had on the cooling systems on the SPF's were the cooling systems were so incredible efficient that I could not get my oil temperature above 160F with the oil cooler blocked on any day when the temperature was below 65F!! The only way I could get my water temp up to 185F was to buy the cheapest thermostat on the market that had zero by-pass when closed. Any bypass around the thermostat and my engine temp would stay at 170F. Once I installed a 192F thermostat i would run about 185F water temp. Remember the thermostat opens at it rated temperature but does not fully close until 10 degrees below it rated temperature!! So 192F doesn't close until 182F. Even when it was 98F out those cars would run 190F and unless I sat at a light for more than 3 cycles the cooling fans would never kick on. In fact I disconnected one fan so only one fan would kick on.

Don't know what your problem is, but if you are confident there is not any air in your system, duplicate the SPF set-up with same size radiator and you shouldn't have a cooling issue. My water pumps were stock pumps, cheap thermostat housing (would warp easy if overthightend) stock pulleys. All Roush engines.

Not a fan of Roush engines but I am a fan of their resale value. I wish I had every SPF I ever sold as they are worth more today than when I sold them and I made a profit on every one of them ignoring my labor (which is some cases was a lot, lol).

[rhunt]

So to respond to several of the comments here is what I checked;
1.) No air in manifold by removing the water temp. sensor. Only water/glycol came out of connection.
2.) Pump rotation is CW when you are positioned in front of the car looking back at the engine. This is the factory rotation.
3.) Timing is set and re-confirmed at 32 BTDC at 4,000 rpm and 12 deg. BTDC at idle
4.) Worried about to 210-215 deg F water temp. because a phone call to Ford Racing tech line stated 180 to 200 deg F. And oil temp is also high. 10 quarts in system currently, pan is 9 quart capacity Also ambient temps here in TX are 65 deg F and from April to Oct will be 95 to 105 deg F.
5.) OD pulley is March P/N 1647 and is the high flow ratio. Pulley would be smaller than stock to turn the pump faster. Was concerned I might be cavitating the pump at the faster speed. Not sure on this yet.
6.) Have ordered original Surge tank from Cobra Restorers in GA for a 427 FE modified to fit the Windsor intake manifold ($375.00 USD). Will install and advise results. Cheers

[jhv48]

My new engine reacted exactly as yours is doing. Temp would go right to 212 and sit there. No fluctuation as the 180 degree thermostat was opening and closing. I used a temp gun to check water temps at various points and they all came back normal, but the temp gauge still read 212 degrees.
Jacked up the front end of the car, installed the Lisle funnel in the radiator inlet and ran the engine till the thermostat opened. Saw a few air bubbles in the funnel. This was my fourth attempt at burping the engine. Continued to run the engine till they stopped and then shut her down and sealed it up when it cooled down. These engines are a bear to burp. Keep trying. It's always the simple things that screw you up.
Now my water temp rarely gets over 180 degrees while driving.

[bingo2]

This is what I've used for years: [ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IHK1VI/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1/175-4204390-6644759?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=13PAHC6TXJK5Z9115TFF&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p =1944687622&pf_rd_i=B0002SRH5G"]Amazon.com: UVIEW 550500 AirLift II Economy Cooling System Refiller: Automotive@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415gYvBjICL.@@AMEPARAM@@415gYvBjICL[/ame] it really works well.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by rhunt

So to respond to several of the comments here is what I checked;
1.) No air in manifold by removing the water temp. sensor. Only water/glycol came out of connection.
2.) Pump rotation is CW when you are positioned in front of the car looking back at the engine. This is the factory rotation.
3.) Timing is set and re-confirmed at 32 BTDC at 4,000 rpm and 12 deg. BTDC at idle
4.) Worried about to 210-215 deg F water temp. because a phone call to Ford Racing tech line stated 180 to 200 deg F. And oil temp is also high. 10 quarts in system currently, pan is 9 quart capacity Also ambient temps here in TX are 65 deg F and from April to Oct will be 95 to 105 deg F.
5.) OD pulley is March P/N 1647 and is the high flow ratio. Pulley would be smaller than stock to turn the pump faster. Was concerned I might be cavitating the pump at the faster speed. Not sure on this yet.
6.) Have ordered original Surge tank from Cobra Restorers in GA for a 427 FE modified to fit the Windsor intake manifold ($375.00 USD). Will install and advise results. Cheers

I'm not experienced with Windsor motors but based on FE and Chevy motors I would say your timing is borderline retarded and another 3 to 4 degrees of advance might cool your motor down a little - unless you are also running some vacuum advance.

[Tom Wells]

Originally Posted by rhunt

Used original Smiths electric water & oil temp gauges & sending units from my racing MG.

Here's a bit of reading for you that may shed some light on your problem: Smiths Voltage Stabilizers - REVISED

Note particularly the section where it says "High Gauge Readings:"

Tom

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by DanEC

I'm not experienced with Windsor motors but based on FE and Chevy motors I would say your timing is borderline retarded and another 3 to 4 degrees of advance might cool your motor down a little - unless you are also running some vacuum advance.

I agree. Move the timing up to 16 at idle and see what happens to the temp.

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by Tom Wells

Here's a bit of reading for you that may shed some light on your problem: Smiths Voltage Stabilizers - REVISED

Note particularly the section where it says "High Gauge Readings:"

Tom

Great post Tom. I learned something.

[Cobranut]

It's been a while snce I checked it, but iirc I run well over 20deg initial advance, and nearly 30 deg total, on my 427FE. It calms down the cam a bit, adds low end torque and throttle response, and runs cooler on the street.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by Cobranut

It's been a while snce I checked it, but iirc I run well over 20deg initial advance, and nearly 30 deg total, on my 427FE. It calms down the cam a bit, adds low end torque and throttle response, and runs cooler on the street.

Do you mean 40 des total? It would be unusual to run a distributor with only 10 degrees (crank) centrifugal advance. Keith Craft recommended 40 deg total for my low compression motor but I'm running 15 initial and 37 total right now.

[madmaxx]

My base timing was 12 degrees initial and 34 all in. Something strange assuming your radiator is the correct size. I like the funnel idea, jam it in the radiator neck so when the thermostat opens it doesn't spill coolant everywhere.