Inter-cooler Condensation a Problem

[olddog]

I've been looking at a new or slightly used Ford, and Ford is putting a lot of ecoboost engines nowadays. I was looking for reliability data and found a law suit filed in 2013 (never found the result). The complaint is that water condenses in the inter-cooler, then under hard acceleration the water is sucked into the engine causing miss-fires and power loss.

I'm certain that water can condense, when air is cooled. I'm also sure that water does not burn well. So the complaint seems plausible to me. I'm sure conditions have to be just right to happen. I know there are quite a few boosted engines in the Cobra and other performance cars. So I thought I would ask those with experience, if they have ever heard of or experienced this. If it happens, how often? Details would be interesting.

[rodneym]

I heard about this too, olddog. I have mixed feelings about the Ecoboost. Ford's going European style with small boosted engines while GM is doing the warmed over pushrod 4/6/8. That idea was used in early 80's Cadillac Seville's. Worst car/engine my dad said he ever had. Ran poorly. 60k miles and caught fire in the dealer lot returning it from the lease. I'm sure they've got it perfected but I have to question GM's long game strategy. In the long run I think Ford will be ahead of the game but it appears there's teething issues.

On an added note, I've heard the Ecoboost can build carbon. Wouldn't the water in the fuel burn off the carbon like spraying water into a carb?

[keezling]

That was addressed in a recall. The intercooler was replaced with a different design. If I recall (pun alert) it was in F150's...

[mikeinatlanta]

I thought it was a TSB and not a recall. Either way, there are several easy fixes out there. Ford's initial fix was adding a plate inside the intercooler that directed more airflow to the bottom so that it would keep condensate out.

This was only a significant issue during the time it took for technicians to become aware of the problem. When it first appeared there was a lot of head scratching and troubleshooting going on.

EDIT: The issue only happened during extended periods of operation at low power in very high humidity. Condensate would form in the intercooler and get sucked in the motor when you gave it sufficient throttle. With later models it's a non-issue. Also a non-issue with any of the available fixes.

[olddog]

I always felt the turbo was a perfect fit for the needs of a diesel. Also diesel exhaust gas temp drops at idle, which if you let it idle a few minutes before shutdown it will not cook the oil and the turbo will last a long time.

In the past, I didn't care for turbo quarks on gasoline engines for a daily driver. The torque was low at lower rpm and the turbo lag was very noticeable. The hot exhaust gas cooked the oil after shutdown and shortened the turbos life.

I have to say that Ford has outdone themselves on the ecoboost. The small ecoboost engines are making more torque at lower rpm than the larger NA engines that they replace. Many of them are hitting peak torque around 2500 rpm or less.

I still have to say that I am hesitant to trust the long term reliability. My last four autos, I have driven 160K to 210K miles and kept them 10-18yrs. All Fords and none had anything go wrong other than tires, belts, brakes, and batteries. A couple other odds and ends, but nothing major.

[mikeinatlanta]

Do some researching and you will see the torture tests Ford has performed on the ecoboost. IMO, long term reliability isn't an issue. For an entirely new engine the initial issues were minimal and they are taking huge power gains with bolt ons without reliability impact.

[Tommy]

I have a 2014 F-150 with the Ecoboost engine and more than 43000 miles. Fuel economy is typically 21-22 MPG and it accelerates that big truck very strongly when I put my foot in it. There is a slight turbo lag to get used to. ... I like the fact that it sips like the 3.5L six it is most of the time, but can give me 400+ HP when called on.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by mikeinatlanta

Do some researching and you will see the torture tests Ford has performed on the ecoboost. IMO, long term reliability isn't an issue. For an entirely new engine the initial issues were minimal and they are taking huge power gains with bolt ons without reliability impact.

Yea I have read the torture test and have followed it for a few years now. The engine (well the 3.5tlr has had the most testing) itself is as solid as a brick. Although I have not seen much torture testing on the smaller 4 poppers. My concern is mostly two turbos that will someday need rebuilt. That was about $600 back in the 80's on the Chrysler, if you took the turbo off yourself and all it needed was bearings and seals. I expect two newer higher tech turbos might set you back $2000 in the future, when these will need rebuilt. Of course that is total speculation.

The second thing that concerns me is the high pressure direct injection. Of course diesels have a similar system, but diesel fuel is a better lubricant than gasoline. I expect this would be costly to repair should anything go wrong.

That is my main concerns. Thanks for all the info to all who have replied. Hearing what gear head owners have to say is much more valuable to me than the opinions of the general populous (most of whom cannot point out a spark plug).

[Cobra #3170]

Originally Posted by olddog

I've been looking at a new or slightly used Ford, and Ford is putting a lot of ecoboost engines nowadays. I was looking for reliability data and found a law suit filed in 2013 (never found the result). The complaint is that water condenses in the inter-cooler, then under hard acceleration the water is sucked into the engine causing miss-fires and power loss.

I'm certain that water can condense, when air is cooled. I'm also sure that water does not burn well. So the complaint seems plausible to me. I'm sure conditions have to be just right to happen. I know there are quite a few boosted engines in the Cobra and other performance cars. So I thought I would ask those with experience, if they have ever heard of or experienced this. If it happens, how often? Details would be interesting.

I don't know if it will help but I have had (5) F-150's now with Ecoboost engines averaging 30,000 miles on each with absolutely no issues on any of them. I pull a 7500 lb trailer with huge frontal area and have towed through the Rockies and Sierra Nevada passes many times. They are the most reliable engines I have ever had in a Ford truck including various diesels starting in 1997 through 2010. They pull well at any altitude and are smooth and quiet. The only caveat here is that maximum mileage has been 30k but I have friends with well over a 100k with no issues either. I have heard from a
service rep friend that they need plugs about 30k if heavy towing was done.
I suppose they may also have the curse of direct injection engines where carbon is deposited on the intake valves but don't know for sure.