427 FE Block Question

[elmariachi]

I recently flew to Atlanta to look at a Contemporary with a supposed 427 side oiler in the car. It was in fact a side oiler, but had no casting numbers or ribs.

To the original poster, remember that "the engine has been broken in" only means its been started and run, checked over, then run through a few dyno pulls for some tuning. That's maybe the equivalent of half a dozen red light starts and 2-3 miles down the street and back. So its still very new, very tight and needs to be treated with care and respect for the first few hundred miles. I'd change the oil again at 100 miles, to be double sure you got all the micro debris from machining and assembly. Use only the best 93 octane fuel and watch your temp and oil pressure gauges. Let it get the oil temps up to 80C or above before leaning on it and don't get in a hurry to start over-revving it.

Jim

[Richard Cowart]

Well, the engine was delivered last week. Kudos to the driver who showed mercy on me and pulled the crate down the street with a pallet jack through ice, into the drive way through more ice and into the garage. I pulled off the top of the crate and the engine is wrapped in black shrink wrap. I wanted to remove it to have a look but resisted. I had ordered a case of Joe Gibbs racing oil and inside that box was my build sheet. I note that the date of casting was missing so that makes the block a service block. But it is a NOS 427 FE top oiler. And, DanEC and Dwight (by PM) correctly guessed that this is a Keith Craft engine. All of the documentation is at the house and I am at the office right now, but everything was documented. Weights of internal parts are listed and the engine was balanced to 0 oz. The Edelbrock aluminum heads were dissembled, ported, spring tensions measured, and reassembled. MSD electronic ignition. Gaps and torque specs were all recorded. Every component, and they are all top notch parts, has been listed. A stroker crank takes it out to 486 cu. in. The cam is a special grind and KC included the information from the machine shop who did the cam. They also put on a harmonic balancer. Dyno sheet shows 585 hp at 6,000 rpm, and ~ 562 ft lbs torque at 5,000 rpm. They have a detailed set of instructions on how to start the engine, but I will have someone else do this when the time comes. I will have to say that Keith Craft engines was a pleasure to work with. Very helpful and even though this engine is in a crate I could not be more pleased at this time. Lance is the new owner and bought KC Engines around a year ago. Great guys to do business with.

[Bernica]

Good to hear! keep everyone posted on your progress. Sounds like a nice motor.

[lippy]

What cam did he choose?

[Richard Cowart]

Originally Posted by lippy

What cam did he choose?

Still at work. I will grab the build sheet when I get home.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Richard Cowart

Dyno sheet shows 585 hp at 6,000 rpm, and ~ 562 ft lbs torque at 5,000 rpm. They have a detailed set of instructions on how to start the engine, but I will have someone else do this when the time comes.

I don't understand. If it was dyno'd, then it had to have been broken in. If it was broken in, why do you need starting instructions?

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I don't understand. If it was dyno'd, then it had to have been broken in. If it was broken in, why do you need starting instructions?

Good point. But also I thought a true break-in period takes 500 miles plus?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Good point. But also I thought a true break-in period takes 500 miles plus?

Other parts on the car might (and do) require a "break in period," but not the engine if it's been on a dyno. If those starting instructions are anything more than "you might want to spin the pump before you fire 'er up," then I don't get it. Unless... that dyno sheet was from a "similarly built engine" and it really hasn't been run yet at all.

[patrickt]

As I said in Post #39 of this thread, he needs to stick his finger in an exhaust port, wipe, and report back as to what's on his finger.

[55312]

If this is a Center Oiler, it's a solid lifter motor. I had mine stroked and rebuilt by Keith Craft and the cam was a special grind from Comp. The lifters are Comp Endurex roller lifters. Break in is key for the first few hundred miles and re-torquing everything and checking valve lash is essential. You will want to do the valve lash every 2500 to 3000 miles after break in. My engine has settled down nicely and it's rare that the valve lash changes these days. Keith and Shelley were great to deal with and would never send out an engine with a dyno sheet from some other engine! My own experience with Lance, before he bought it and was just working there was not so good but I never thought he was dishonest.

Good luck

Tim

[Ron61]

From a few years back, mine was ran on a dyno a few times and everything checked and then I had to have a break in period of around 500 miles. I did change the oil at the 100 and 250 mile marks and everything was good.

Ron

[olddog]

There were center oiler 427 FE juice cam blocks that can run hydraulic lifters. I know for certain that some service blocks were this way. I'm not so sure if any factory blocks were. So, this could be a hydraulic lifter engine.

I would not assume every part of an engine is completely broken in, just because it was ran on a dyno.

As for start up instructions, over the years I have read many a thread where remote oil filters and oil coolers were plumbed up wrong. If I recall correctly, some of those incidents ruined the engine. Many other threads, on less than adequate cooling, are on this site. I would certainly have instructions, if I was standing behind an engine. Even if the purchaser was a total idiot and ruined a $10K+ engine you built, everyone is unhappy, and it could reflect negatively on the builder. Yep I would have a long set of instructions, that on the one hand an attorney agreed protected me, and on the other hand protected the motor and the customer, if followed correctly.

[patrickt]

I'm betting this engine has never been fired. And if that's true, then he's not going to find a lick of carbon in that head. If I were an engine builder, I wouldn't sell an engine that I had completely built, but not broken in. That's just asking for trouble. The next thread we get will be "the rings won't seat, I've got no compression, the lobes are making a funny whacking noise, and there's shiny stuff in the oil."

[Bernica]

If the engine is still sitting on a pallet take a few pics of sides, front and rear. Pay attention to the cam plug location at the rear of the motor. It will tell if you have a solid or juice cam. But either way, comments above regarding break-in should be heeded. Even more so if you are running a solid flat tappet. Seen and heard of several folks that have "wiped" their cam in the first few miles because they didn't use proper break-in oil or started right away with synthetic.
All IMHO...

[lippy]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I'm betting this engine has never been fired. And if that's true, then he's not going to find a lick of carbon in that head. If I were an engine builder, I wouldn't sell an engine that I had completely built, but not broken in. That's just asking for trouble. The next thread we get will be "the rings won't seat, I've got no compression, the lobes are making a funny whacking noise, and there's shiny stuff in the oil."

I'm pretty sure Keith and almost every other builder dynos their built engines. Each one. He's a reputable guy so I find it difficult to think he didn't.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by lippy

I'm pretty sure Keith and almost every other builder dynos their built engines. Each one. He's a reputable guy so I find it difficult to think he didn't.

Except... he sold the business and has nothing to do with it anymore. And, he was ready to throw in the towel on the engine biz for quite some time now. It's pretty easy to tell if an engine has ever run though, so I'll just wait for the OP to post and STFU in the meantime....

[Richard Cowart]

I really find it hard to believe that Keith Craft did not run the engine and would gave me a fraudulent dyno printout. That would be deception and out-and-out fraud, and quite frankly, could do serious damage to his business. This was not a cheap engine and I have 12 pages of documentation on parts, balancing, dyno results, torque, gap, and spring tension specs, head work, where some of the pages are signed and dated by the person doing the work. To suggest that KC took the dyno results from another engine run, changed the dates and engine type just is not credible without some sort of evidence.
The starting instructions are more of a check list, like pilots are supposed to use before flying. The principle warning is making sure that the timing is correctly set. With the electronic distributor customers have damaged their engines during start up. KC indicates to give them a call if there are questions. All of the concerns that have been voiced here are addressed in the information they sent.
The cam is from Comp Cams and the build sheet lists a hydraulic roller camshaft. Yes, it is sitting in its mounting frame in the crate and is still shrink wrapped. I was told to rotate the engine by hand every two months. They told me that they do not advertise this, but they do assemble Cobras for their customers who purchase engines - everything but the paint, and have assemble around 8-10 Kirkham cars. So, the plans are to ship the engine back to them when I get a car and have them assemble everything.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Richard Cowart

The cam is from Comp Cams and the build sheet lists a hydraulic roller camshaft.

Thanks Richard,
I'm curious about the number specs on your cam?
Do you mind sharing?

[Richard Cowart]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Thanks Richard,
I'm curious about the number specs on your cam?
Do you mind sharing?

Sure. And, I am just reading off the form that Comp Cams sent. I hope that when I post this the text and numbers do not readjust where they are scrambled. Hope this helps and I certainly cannot decipher this.

Gross valve lift: Intake 0.649 Exhaust 0.633

Duration @ 0.006 Tappet lift Intake 297 Exhaust 318

Valve Timing @ 0.050 Open: Intake 15 Close: BTDC 47 ABDC
Exhaust 64 BBDC 8 ATDC

Specs for cam installed @ 106.0 intake center line.
Intake: Duration @ 0.050 243.0
Lobe Lift 0.3690
Lobe Separation 112.0

Exhaust: Duration @ 0.050 252.0
Lobe Lift 0.3600
Lobe Separation -------


Grind #: FB 13051R/3151R HR112.0
Part #: 33-999-3

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I'm betting this engine has never been fired. And if that's true, then he's not going to find a lick of carbon in that head. If I were an engine builder, I wouldn't sell an engine that I had completely built, but not broken in. That's just asking for trouble. The next thread we get will be "the rings won't seat, I've got no compression, the lobes are making a funny whacking noise, and there's shiny stuff in the oil."

To even insinuate this with only knowing the few details posted shows your character or rather lack of character..........
If the shop said the engine was dynoed and sent a printout with it,at least give them the benefit of the doubt unless you can prove otherwise...........

Maybe you just don't like KC or their engines??????????? if that's the case,then say so,rather than try to insinuate something you know nothing about and can't prove from your keyboard..........

And people wonder why Keith sold his business?????????????????????