Evan's (REAL1) Car On The Market

[Ron61]

I don't think that the person who buys his car is a sucker and if it is worth that to him, then more power to him. The car is one of the nicest ones that I have seen on any of the sites.

Ron

[Detroit Bill]

I agree with Ron to each his own.

[DanEC]

I was browsing through Ebay last night and sure seemed to be a slew of 4000 series cars on there in the $120 - 130k price range. I didn't look at the particulars to see what was aluminum, fiberglass, engine, etc.

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by DanEC

I was browsing through Ebay last night and sure seemed to be a slew of 4000 series cars on there in the $120 - 130k price range. I didn't look at the particulars to see what was aluminum, fiberglass, engine, etc.

Over on the old Corvette forum, a few weeks ago a guy caused a minor uproar by announcing that he had given up on buying a mid-60s Corvette in favor of a new Superformance. As you might expect, the Corvette loyalists questioned his judgement and dedication to the marque. He explained that he thought the 1963-67 Corvettes were overpriced (for what you got) and the Superformance offered better quality, performance and street appeal for the dollars spent. I agreed with his basic rationale but reminded him of one thing. The value of an item is largely determined by supply and demand. The supply of mid-60s Corvettes is fixed, so the value is determined solely by demand. The supply of Cobra replicas is increasing and, as long as demand is sufficient, builders will continue to make them. That means it is unlikely their values will increase significantly as they do with collectible cars. .... Cobra replicas are great fun to drive, but I can't see the value of cars that are still being made and sold increasing like the original Cobras of the 1960s.

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by Tommy

The value of an item is largely determined by supply and demand. The supply of mid-60s Corvettes is fixed, so the value is determined solely by demand. The supply of Cobra replicas is increasing and, as long as demand is sufficient, builders will continue to make them. That means it is unlikely their values will increase significantly as they do with collectible cars. .... Cobra replicas are great fun to drive, but I can't see the value of cars that are still being made and sold increasing like the original Cobras of the 1960s.

I like your post, and agree with you on most of your points. The only minor difference in perspective I have is that it is price, not value, that is moved by supply versus demand.

I know that to many people, price=value; but I think an important distinction between the two can be illustrated right here, in this thread:

The price of CSX4000 cars (on average) may be running lower than what Real 1 is asking for his specific example, and yet, someday, a buyer may emerge that values his particular car more than they value its competitors in the marketplace, and they may therefore agree to pay his premium -

Likewise- He seems to value his car so much that he is simply not willing to part with it at market rate prices - Good on him. Some may look at his price and conclude him to be a greedy profiteer, but no one can really understand why he priced his car where he did- The truth only exists in his head, and he states clearly in his ad that he would rather keep the car, then let it go for less than he's asking - Again, good for him...

Value is very personal, and subjective, while prices are empirical. Prices only reflect the exact point on a trendline where a particular sales transaction was closed...

Value can move prices, but prices NEVER determine value... Just 2 more cents, from another amateur economist...

Oh, and I do FULLY agree that the Cobra (replica) market is going to face some eventual headwinds in resale prices due to the continuously increasing supply factor... JMHO.

When the grocery store only has 20 mangos, they are $2.00 apiece... when the grocery store has 20 cases of mangos, they are $.30 apiece...

And, as a SERIOUS Corvette guy myself (Go look me up- I was a Moderator on DigitalCorvettes.com for 7 years), I can state from personal experience that (to me), no mid year (63-67) Vette is anywhere NEAR as much fun to drive -

Even the late 66 and 67 Big-block Vettes still feel bigger, less rigid, and far more demanding to drive than these little bubble-faced go-carts.

Buy (the correct) mid-year Corvette as a "buy and hold" investment. Buy a Cobra Replica to drive, and to have fun in...

They really are Apples and Oranges

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by Tommy

Over on the old Corvette forum, a few weeks ago a guy caused a minor uproar by announcing that he had given up on buying a mid-60s Corvette in favor of a new Superformance. As you might expect, the Corvette loyalists questioned his judgement and dedication to the marque. He explained that he thought the 1963-67 Corvettes were overpriced (for what you got) and the Superformance offered better quality, performance and street appeal for the dollars spent. I agreed with his basic rationale but reminded him of one thing. The value of an item is largely determined by supply and demand. The supply of mid-60s Corvettes is fixed, so the value is determined solely by demand. The supply of Cobra replicas is increasing and, as long as demand is sufficient, builders will continue to make them. That means it is unlikely their values will increase significantly as they do with collectible cars. .... Cobra replicas are great fun to drive, but I can't see the value of cars that are still being made and sold increasing like the original Cobras of the 1960s.

Yeah - if that was the C1-C2 forum I think I remember that. I ended up weighing in on the defense of the quality and performance of a lot of Cobra replicas. But, I've owned a 66 Vette for over 25 years and buying one these days is a very risky proposition for the money involved. They are all advertised as "never hit", original motor", "perfect restoration or survivor quality" and priced accordingly - and they probably are not at least 95% of the time. Lots of hidden issues and scams especially if you are not almost a Corvette expert.

[TimG427]

If you see a CSX 4000 series advertised and it's an aluminum body, it will be called out in the first line of the add. If nothing is said, you can be assured that it is fiberglass. If there is an engine shot, you can tell by the way the body is secured to the frame around the hood opening. I think the fiberglass body's on the CSX 4000 series are beautiful and true to form. If they're priced 150K or less, they are most likely fiberglass.

[jhv48]

Having read most of the threads that Real1 took part in that dealt with the real versus original debate regarding his car, you can bet (being a lawyer) that he will word his replies in such a way that the potential buyer (if not well educated in the Cobra world) will think he is buying a historic vehicle.

We've all seen him duck-and-weave, dodge-and-deflect, when called on his claims, but all it takes is one, less than knowledgeable buyer, for him to make a sale.

I'm not saying he would ever misrepresent his car intentionally to a prospective buyer, but we all know how he is known for pushing definitions and gray areas to suit his needs.

I just hope he is very careful and honest with a prospective buyer, as you never know how vindictive a buyer, who believes he was misled by the seller, can be.

Once you get in the $250,000 range, you are dealing with a different class of buyer. One that just might make life miserable for anyone that dupes them. Evan is currently a big fish in a small pond (at least he thinks he is). But there are lots of bigger fish in much bigger ponds that just might take major offense if they purchased his car thinking it was something it wasn't.

Just sayin!

[RodKnock]

Vernon Estes recently sold CSX4227, which was asking $160,000. CSX4349 is/was listed for $180,000. Both are alloy bodies. So, to pay anywhere near $230,000 for Evan's, no matter how beautiful, no matter how authentic his replica is, to me, has "sucker" written all over it. Sorry, ladies and gentlemen, that's my feeling on the subject.

Evan's CSX4206 is a beautiful replica of the original, but in the used car market, it's WAY over priced. If you're paying anywhere near $230,000, then you're buying into the story that it's a real genuine authentic Shelby Cobra. And I don't buy the story. They're Kirkham's with badges. That's how I feel. There are plenty of others who feel differently. And that's great for them.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Yeah - if that was the C1-C2 forum I think I remember that. I ended up weighing in on the defense of the quality and performance of a lot of Cobra replicas. But, I've owned a 66 Vette for over 25 years and buying one these days is a very risky proposition for the money involved. They are all advertised as "never hit", original motor", "perfect restoration or survivor quality" and priced accordingly - and they probably are not at least 95% of the time. Lots of hidden issues and scams especially if you are not almost a Corvette expert.

I owned a '66 427 Corvette Roadster, with factory side exhaust, for about 25 years. The original engine was long gone, so I installed a 540ci/600+HP engine with custom Sanderson headers, made to fit an aftermarket, but OEM looking side exhaust. I can only speak for an alloy-bodied Cobra with an FE engine, but the difference between a BB Cobra and BB Corvette is night and day. The mid-year Corvette is 3,200 lbs. My Kirkham is 2,100 lbs.

[Tommy]

Robert,
I enjoyed your post on value vs. price. I deliberately used the word value instead of price to account for the effect of inflation on prices. I didn't want someone to claim their car had increased in value just because its price had gone up with inflation.

[Blue66]

Damm lots of old Vet guys in here !! I had a 65 396/425hp.. Got it in a deal.. Kept it for a few months an sold it.. Made good $$$ back then ! I was a die hard Ford guy then.

[razerwire]

Had a 427 1967 vet for few years, it was 4 speed with 3 two barrels, more of them every year that goes by and you would have to be expert to tell real from converted. Owing one in past would be of no help to tell real from factory or not as the fake big blocks have all the correct stickers and markings and fool some experts. Nice to have SAAC keeping track of cobra's and mustang's from Shelby.

[JoeT]

good for Evan and Good for the potential buyer. May he love and enjoy the car as much as Evan did.




now to cobra power verses vette and other power. A buddy of mine has a modified 911 twin turbo. He says it has 800hp. It's not nearly as "fun" to drive as my 400hp replica. Another buddy has a C7 Z51 vette. Nice car and in another 10 years or so I may look at a vette (will they be C8 or C9 by then?) but no where NEAR as fun to drive as the cobra

[Bernica]

If Evan is lurking here, congratulations! You certainly took pride and promoted a beautiful car over the years and I am sure it is not easy to let it go!

[ASO544]

I'm a closet vette guy too... Had a 69 427 TriPower that I sold 5 years back. It was all matching numbers but could've use some TLC. A Dade County fireman showed up with a 10 of a blonde to pick it up. He took it for a test drive and I warned her 3 times about the side pipes. They get back and she of course burns her leg.... Bad. No doubt scared it. He still left with a big smile !!!! Lol

Great car but definitely not a C2. Enjoy my BDR way more.....and yes Evan's car is amazing!

[Bernica]

Good God, we are turning this into a Corvette thread? Really??

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Good God, we are turning this into a Corvette thread? Really??

Why not? Consider it a tribute to all the times Real1 drug a thread off to his favorite topic.



BTW, the one on the right is real.

[jhv48]

But is it original?

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by jhv48

But is it original?

OK, I admit that the air in the tires, the gas in the tank and some other things are not as they were in 1963. But the VIN plate was placed in 1963.