Why do GT40 replicas cost so much more than replica AC Cobras?

[Paintwerks]

Looking at for sale listings the Superformance 40's are about twice as much as Superformance Cobras.

I get that the 40's have doors, a roof and a transaxle, but essentially they're fundamentally not much different to a Cobra.

I'm curious as to why GT40 replicas cost so much more than Cobra replicas?

[MOTORHEAD]

All the parts you mentioned, and more, but the single biggest cost is the transaxle!

[twobjshelbys]

And the frame/unibody.

[Dwight]

my GT40 trannie cost $9,800 plus clutch, etc.

base kit $42,000

headers $2,500


Dwight

[RodKnock]

SPF GT40s come standard with A/C.

The SPF GT40s are accurate reproductions and I believe the literature states 70% of the parts are interchangeable with a real 1960's original GT40. And then there's the cost of the Safir license to use the GT40 name. Ultimately, they're built in limited quantities and the supply/demand equation takes over.

[Mark IV]

Because...

[joyridin']

Thanks for that pic Mark IV! I never knew what the bare frame/body looked like in a GT40. Definitely not a tube frame with a fiberglass body slapped on it!

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

Thanks for that pic Mark IV! I never knew what the bare frame/body looked like in a GT40. Definitely not a tube frame with a fiberglass body slapped on it!

Well there ARE those but they are not a "GT40".

And let's not devolve into the "continuation/replica/kit" argument. Any "GT40" built with a monocoque will be more expensive and complex. On the SPF/Gelscoe/Etc. GT the roof is double panel stamped steel. Do you think that costs more than a piece of fiberglass?

[Ron61]

I have a friend who is just finishing his GT-40 up and it is nothing like building a Cobra Roadster. As stated above, the parts are a lot more expensive and the build is not nearly as easy in my opinion.

Ron

[Igofastr]

What Ron 61 said....they are WAY more complex to build (even the less accurate reproductions), and there significantly fewer manufacturers. That adds up to a much more expensive car.

And yes, the transaxle is expensive, but that's in addition to the already expensive rolling chassis.

On the other hand, the ally Kirkhams and Shelbys are not exactly cheap, likely reflecting the added expense and complexity associated with manufacturing in aluminum.

Really, a fiberglass cobra is about as simple of a car as you can make...

[RodKnock]

The cheapest SPF Cobra roller on the Hillbank site is $57,000, but I assume that a base roller (no options) is slightly cheaper. The SPF GT40 roller is $110,000. So, the SPF GT40 roller is roughly 2x the cost of an SPF Cobra roller.

I just don't think the GT40 reproduction is $53,000+ more complex than a Cobra replica. Certainly other replica GT40 companies can reproduce their GT40 copies for roughly half the cost.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

The cheapest SPF Cobra roller on the Hillbank site is $57,000, but I assume that a base roller (no options) is slightly cheaper. The SPF GT40 roller is $110,000. So, the SPF GT40 roller is roughly 2x the cost of an SPF Cobra roller.

I just don't think the GT40 reproduction is $53,000+ more complex than a Cobra replica. Certainly other replica GT40 companies can reproduce their GT40 copies for roughly half the cost.

It's also about factory utilization. The overall GT40 is much more complicated to manufacture. It is easy to estimate that building a single GT40 at HiTech takes twice as long as a Cobra. So if you look at factory $, it's roughly equal. (2 Cobras per GT40). Thus the factory loading is equal. That's the simple model. Actual numbers are likely within a small variation of that but not 5x.

[twobjshelbys]

Oh, and if someone who thinks they really can make a 90% interchangeable GT40 for the same price as a fiberglass cobra, go ahead and try to get funding!!!! Maybe you've got something the rest of the industry has overlooked.

Sort of like the guy in Florida that was going to build hand rolled alloy Cobras for 50K.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

The overall GT40 is much more complicated to manufacture. It is easy to estimate that building a single GT40 at HiTech takes twice as long as a Cobra.

I assume that's an opinion and not fact. How do you know that it takes twice as long? The GT40 is a more complicated roller to build, as I said above, I just don't think it's $53,000 more expensive to build a roller.

However, Rick (Mark IV) knows the production schedules of a Cobra and GT40 roller, but labor in South Africa isn't the same as UAW. There's more materials, but RCR can build a roller for $42,000 in Michigan. The SPF GT40 is a better GT40, and comes with better parts, but is it $60,000 better?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Oh, and if someone who thinks they really can make a 90% interchangeable GT40 for the same price as a fiberglass cobra, go ahead and try to get funding!!

The "90% interchangeable" is a fallacy. SPF was called on it and their latest literature says 70%.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I assume that's an opinion and not fact. How do you know that it takes twice as long? The GT40 is a more complicated roller to build, as I said above, I just don't think it's $53,000 more expensive to build a roller.

However, Rick (Mark IV) knows the production schedules of a Cobra and GT40 roller, but labor in South Africa isn't the same as UAW. There's more materials, but RCR can build a roller for $42,000 in Michigan. The SPF GT40 is a better GT40, and comes with better parts, but is it $60,000 better?

Whether it is $60K better is up to the buyer BUT you can't compare production costs of the RCR with the SPF. Lets look at these items:

1) Roof- SPF; double wall steel stamped in matched metal dies on a 600 ton press. RCR; Fiberglass made in a mold. I know RCR does first class glass work but I assure I can make hundreds of FRP molds for the cost of a metal stamping die.

2) Chassis- SPF is coated steel that is laser cut, some pieces are stamped to shape, other are rolled, press brake formed, etc. Steel is then placed in a jig and spot welded, mig welded and gas welded to form. RCR is flat aluminum CNC cut to shape, jigged and welded.

Uprights- SPF are cast alloy and then machined. RCR are CNC machined. Casting patterns are not cheap.

There is no "economy of scale" for either manufacturer, 2-6 cars per month don't provide any real savings. And while the wage scale in port Elizabeth may not equal the UAW, it is nowhere as cheap as you may think. Plus the 30 plus paid holidays, etc. and there is less savings than you might expect.

And also in that $60K difference remember the SPF is a roller.....painted, trimmed and fully assembled. Brakes are bled, the wiring is all done, etc. And you get the exhaust, the A/C, the wheels, etc. So the real cost difference is much less. How much does a good quality paint job cost?

Again, taking NOTHING away from RCR. I know Fran and they make a nice car. It comes down to what you want and if you want to build it.

[cycleguy55]

Worth keeping in mind the GT40 program was to "kick Ferrari's a**", on pretty much a 'cost no object' basis. As such, there was a focus on building to suit racing requirements - light weight, stiff structure and mount points, etc. - which meant monocogue stressed panels and structures, hand fabrication, tons of rivets, etc. This was never intended to a mass-produced vehicle - it was a race car. Translating that to something that could be affordably mass-produced to achieve economies of scale is going to be very difficult, if not impossible - unless the transformation results in a radically different platform (e.g. fiberglass body on a tube frame). For that model, take a look at Factory Five's GTM - very different than either a Cobra replica or a GT40. http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/gtm-...chassiscontent

For that matter, Ford and Shelby stopped making the original Cobras because they couldn't make money on them, and they were pretty simple automobiles. Arguably they could have made the Cobra profitable by switching to fiberglass bodies instead of the hand-hewn aluminum ones, but we'll never know, will we?

[G-Pete]

Originally Posted by Paintwerks

I'm curious as to why GT40 replicas cost so much more than Cobra replicas?

Nature of the Beast....

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

This was never intended to a mass-produced vehicle

But it came close. At one point FAV was given a budget and instructions to "productionize" the GT40 but that decision was reversed with weeks of the go ahead. And the chassis was steel instead of the alloy that Eric Broadley wanted as Ford thought it would be easier to produce in quantity.

Think about it....there could be hundreds of FAV GT40s extant if that had materialized!

[G-Pete]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

but RCR can build a roller for $42,000 in Michigan. The SPF GT40 is a better GT40, and comes with better parts, but is it $60,000 better?

Fran don't offer a roller for $42k. It is a kit - that rolls around. You still have to assemble the car - SPF -> Drivetrain in and you're done. Same with CAV.

It's like you build a car with one hand (writing a check) or with both hands...

I can afford one, but prefer both.hehe