Oh brother, another thread shot down the tubes before it really got started.
I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned budget in this conversation. Not everyone who has or wants a Cobra (or any hotrod for that matter) has enough cash to plunk down for the latest and greatest motor regardless of their lust for one. I'm quite sure many people who would love an FE 427, 428 or whatever but are taken back by the $25K (?) price tag, or the additional weight, or the reputation or hearsay of likely failure, etc....
Others may be in over their heads just plunking down $7-12K for a crate engine in a small block. Personally, I'm kind of a cheap skate but I also love to build engines so I built my own 393 stroker and I really like how it runs and particularly how it sounds with the sidepipes. I think I have around $3500 in the whole engine and it runs in the area of 515 hp- more than enough for me at the moment.
Sound is another impetus for some buyers, but unless someone is really engine savvy I'm betting 90% or more of hot rodders and cobra owners couldn't tell the difference between a small block and a big block from the sound alone.
Personally, a built small block in the 351 Windsor family fits the bill for me. Quick response, relatively inexpensive and reliable to build and maintain, fits the engine compartment fairly easily, sufficient grunt and sound to make most bystanders stop and watch as you go by if my results are any indication. What's not to like?
Bob
PS- I'm a Chevy guy and I like the LS line a lot. Much like the earlier GM small blocks, they are easy to upgrade, lots of parts available for hot rodders, lots of them to choose from , etc..... but this is only the second SBF I've built and I really have enjoyed the process and the engine has responded fairly easily to my ham handed wrenching techniques.. not that I'm going to threaten Brent's business any time soon!
These cars were designed to succeed on road courses, not drag strips. Best power plant to achieve that goal given modern suspension, brakes and chassis is -
#1 - LS Platform
#2 - Windsor Platform
#3 - FE Platform
That's why you see so many windsors in these cars, some can't bring themselves to go with LS even though they know it is a superior motor, but they can justify a windsor as an acceptable alternative to the FE, the FE being the least road course friendly of the bunch.
You're going to attempt owning a Ford AND a Chevy at the same time?
Didn't you ever watch Star Trek? Don't you know what happens when matter and anti-matter collide? The entire Universe could implode.
You sir, must have brass balls. I don't think there is a single Internet forum out there where you won't be loathed 50% of the time ... Except on the Mopar forums, where you are certain to be loathed 100% of the time...
Ha, being loathed 50% of the time sounds ok to me. In the real world im probably loathed 90% of the time so i think i will fit in fine here seeing how this thread took a turn for the worse. God i hope politics and religion are not discussed here, lol.
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millsy
Ha, being loathed 50% of the time sounds ok to me. In the real world im probably loathed 90% of the time so i think i will fit in fine here seeing how this thread took a turn for the worse. God i hope politics and religion are not discussed here, lol.
No politics, no religion discussed here, Kind of a club rule, same as making jokes about disabled people. Just doesn't work here...
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 427 S/C, Twin Paxton 511 FE
Posts: 2,594
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CSX3170 and Morris' KMP are the fastest Cobras on the planet (different strengths but unbeaten). FE's in both. Dick Smith's, too.
Not to mention those horrible round tube ladder frames
Until a Chevy does better, it's just wishful thinking and sour grapes.
Notice how everybody is happiest with what they have?
Funny how that works out.
I bought my Pond block and stage 2 heads from Keith back in 2005. Over the last ten years, I've watched other builders do a better job with quality and especially responsiveness to their customers. Presence on sites such as this has been critical to the growth of some of the newer builders... Keith used to have a major presence on this board, and in my opinion, that was critical to his success with this crowd back in the day. In my humble opinion, as KCR'S volume increased, the quality decreased and his customer responsiveness suffered. I'm glad to see you making an effort to re-engage with the Cobra crowd, as there is business to be had and competition is a good thing. I for one love reading about the latest flow numbers on the latest greatest CNC heads... that kind of stuff makes me want to spend money. And that's the point, isn't it?
If you want my opinion, maintain a presence on this board and other FE specific forums and most of all, do quality work. Back in the day, my block had issues...KCR paid for shipping for me to send it back and made it right. I think this sort of customer first attitude fell by the wayside over the last 10 years.
You can get it back. Back in the day, Keith had epic arguments with real engine guys... It showed that he was interested and engaged. That's key. Occasionally, there's still an interesting engine thread amid all the nonsense "is it real" garbage.
Cobra Make, Engine: Former owner of Long Live the Bow tie Contemporary #102 427 Chevy .30 over Merlin heads 11to1, TBI injection
Posts: 745
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Commissioner Bele " I am black on the right side and white on the left side, Lokai and his inferior scum are white on the right side and black on the left side". Let This be your last Battlefield. Ford on the left, Chevy on the right, Mopar in the middle, all good just enjoy the ride! Quote from Star Trek
Cobra Make, Engine: Some polish thing... With some old engine
Posts: 2,286
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Peaks
I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned budget in this conversation. Not everyone who has or wants a Cobra (or any hotrod for that matter) has enough cash to plunk down for the latest and greatest motor regardless of their lust for one. I'm quite sure many people who would love an FE 427, 428 or whatever but are taken back by the $25K (?) price tag, or the additional weight, or the reputation or hearsay of likely failure, etc....
Just to be clear... and fair... you cant have your cake and eat it too....
I'm willing to bet $25k FE build, is typically an all ALU build (block, heads, and intake). These DO weigh in at similar figures to your standard small block build.
That said for $25K you could probably build an all ALU SBF... then you'd have your weight advantage, but not your $$$ advantage.
My personal Engine choice would match my choice in kit.
Kirkham, Shelby: FE All ALU
ERA: FE, 428 or 390 stroker, may be even All Alu.
SPF, Hurricane, FFR, multitude of others: SBF
SPF, Backdraft: MOD motor. Maybe even electric (NO kidding!).
That all said - If my bonnet had a Scoop, I'd have an suitable intake that could be seen peeking through that gap
I LOVE that look!
PS- I'm a Chevy guy and I like the LS line a lot. Much like the earlier GM small blocks, they are easy to upgrade, lots of parts available for hot rodders, lots of them to choose from , etc..... but this is only the second SBF I've built and I really have enjoyed the process and the engine has responded fairly easily to my ham handed wrenching techniques.. not that I'm going to threaten Brent's business any time soon!
There are pluses and minuses to every engine family. I have yet to find one family that has everything in check. Everyone may think that I'm pro-Ford all the way and have never touched a Chevy, but I have handled a few and I have even touched a couple of LS engines. I built a 402 for a local guy, that used an aluminum GTO block and a set of AFR heads that put down 500 hp at the tires in a late model Camaro. He picked it up on a Saturday morning, had it in the car and dyno'd by Monday and placed 3rd in a field of 83 cars (one of those races where they do the 1/4 mile, auto-cross, etc., all at once) the following Saturday.
However, I could have done the same thing with a 402 inch Windsor.
What got in my craw was when someone said that the LS engine was superior to anything Ford ever had or has now. Obviously it was a statement born out of emotion, as there are *zero* engines out there that are superior to all others. As mentioned above, each engine family has their own "perks".
If you want to look at modern muscle car performance, then I would have to give the nod to the Modular Ford engine.
If you want to look at compatibility and pricing, then I think a lot of Chevy engines get the nod.
If you want to look at which engines have tried and trued longevity, then there are several that would fit that bill, but I don't think I'd reach for an engine that has only been out since 1996-1997 (both Mod Ford and LS), I'd reach for something that has been beat on since the 60's.
In my mind it's hard to beat a big inch Windsor with Cleveland heads. IMO, that's the best compromise of physical size, horsepower, available displacement, originality, etc. However, also in my opinion, it has no place in a Cobra...
That was not my experience two years ago when I was in the market to buy. What I observed was that any engine other than a Ford consistently had a lower asking price and was often on the market much longer.
In retrospect I probably should have bought one of those dirt cheap (especially if it had an auto tranny), yanked the engine and transmission and sold it to someone with a bowtie fetish, then replaced it with something fresh. Ah, lost opportunities...
I was stating Thor maine's usual position. I was writing that tongue firmly planted in cheek. Of course, it doesn't apply to every situation, there are exceptions, but most Cobras will sell more quickly and for more money with a Ford engine.
Just to be clear... and fair... you cant have your cake and eat it too....
I'm willing to bet $25k FE build, is typically an all ALU build (block, heads, and intake). These DO weigh in at similar figures to your standard small block build.
That said for $25K you could probably build an all ALU SBF... then you'd have your weight advantage, but not your $$$ advantage.
My personal Engine choice would match my choice in kit.
Kirkham, Shelby: FE All ALU
ERA: FE, 428 or 390 stroker, may be even All Alu.
SPF, Hurricane, FFR, multitude of others: SBF
SPF, Backdraft: MOD motor. Maybe even electric (NO kidding!).
That all said - If my bonnet had a Scoop, I'd have an suitable intake that could be seen peeking through that gap
I LOVE that look!
I'm Cammer all the way. I love those engines.
I love the hypocrisy here. Folks are worried about the weight of the engine or other components of their Cobra, yet often carry around 25-50-75 lbs of extra weight around their mid-sections.
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA Street Roadster #782 with 459 cu in FE KC engine, toploader, 3.31
Posts: 4,519
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Well, I'm inspired now with all of this engine swapping, cross pollination talk. Think I'm going to pull the 427 out of my 66 Corvette and install it in the ERA. It's a pretty rowdy engine so kind of goes with a Cobra. Next, I'll pull the 440 out of my 67 GTX and plug it into the Corvette - it needs to be calmed down a little anyway. And the FE can go into the 67 GTX because it's kind of heavy and could use a bit more torque. That should keep the boys down at the monthly Sonic cruise night talking for awhile.
Hey guys this thread was supposed to be about engine preferences for the car not which engine is the ultimate engine. Ultimate engine arguments are just that arguments. Lance is trying to get a sense of what his marketplace values so he can better serve our build preferences.
Ed
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Help them do what they would have done if they had known what they could do.
Cobra Make, Engine: Some polish thing... With some old engine
Posts: 2,286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock
I'm Cammer all the way. I love those engines.
I love the hypocrisy here. Folks are worried about the weight of the engine or other components of their Cobra, yet often carry around 25-50-75 lbs of extra weight around their mid-sections.
Cammers are rubbish... They last only 50miles of street use, and then aren't worth the warranty.
But YOU already know this, and that's why you don't have one
As for losing 50lbs... Yikes, That would amputation for me to achieve.
Which engine is best. When I titled my kit car, I presented the inspector with MY manufacture tags. Technically I am the manufacturer of my car, so I built it MY way. In 1968 I was looking at a blown up cobra, I also had an original ZL-1 available.(it turned out to be a little warm so I passed.) To present day the heritage ZL-1 came available so I put together a 40 plus year old idea. I liked the SOHC, been done. I liked the boss 429, been done. If somebody and their kids built a kit with a 4cylinder from an old pick-up, I'd consider that pretty cool if that was what they could afford and spent the hundreds of hours together building their car. I just wanted something different. Its the builders choice, do what you like and enjoy it.
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
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Love the Cammer as well and have helped work on them, but they are too worrisome for me with all the variables and reliability (that's just me) as well as fitment issues.
Love the Boss 429 as well, but fitment issues etc in a Cobra...
Love the Tunnel Port 427 too!
Love to hear an SBC scream at over 10k (saw in one of Larry Minor's cars)
Lots of love above, I know. But I always end up back at the well-built FE MR that I personally understand best.
__________________
All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
Cammers are rubbish... They last only 50miles of street use, and then aren't worth the warranty.
But YOU already know this, and that's why you don't have one
As for losing 50lbs... Yikes, That would amputation for me to achieve.
Somebody must be able to build a reliable Cammer out there, CC member Damage's Cammer notwithstanding. Jay Leno has had a Cammer in his Cobra for a couple decades. He famously appeared with it in a TV commercial many years ago.
I'd probably look to Robert Pond down in SoCal to build one, if I suddenly got the itch to torch $50,000 +/- of my money.
As for losing 50 lbs, amputation of a limb is not required. A more desirable approach would be just converting fat to muscle and that would work OK too.
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