1965 427 s/c Factory Five on eBay

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

The post stands as written, if you don't get it I'm not going to explain it to you.
Let's see if the poster who called the car out on that VIN defends his position, sometimes being a follower and jumping on the band wagon isn't such a good idea

Your earlier post makes no sense to me and that has to be why you don't want to explain it.

As for "jumping on the bandwagon," that's certainly your opinion. Folks have pointed out issues with the car. You see that as "jumping on the bandwagon." I call it "Consumer Watch."

[twobjshelbys]

You're all the world's greatest experts. The hot rod world has been doing this for years. The vin is from the original donor. The factory five is a skin is a serial number not a vin. Even a Hennessy venom supercar carries the original donor vin. There is a porsche replica at barrett ackson this week that is titled as a vw.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

The vin is from the original donor. The factory five is a skin is a serial number not a vin.

Ok, stop for a moment and reread what you wrote:

First, Factory Five is not a skin over another body (like a VW kit car or dune buggy), they have their own chassis,and their own body. As such, they sell the chassis/body kit with their own MSO, listing their own VIN number (originally in a FFRxxxx), then going to a 17 digit format.


Second: Factory Five does not use, nor has ever been engineered to use a 1965 Mustang as a "donor".

Third: A 1965 Mustang VIN has been assigned to the car, whether that is or was legal in the original owner/builders state is all that really matters. That, and if the car it was used off of still exists, as the VIN database is now a shared database across the state lines.


Just thought you needed to know that.


As for the rest, I see no mob mentality here, what I see is a car posted to the ALL TALK COBRA subforum, which is now being discussed in greater detail than the broker who is selling it might have wanted. Yet, it was his choice to post it in this section, so he must have wanted us to discuss it in one way shape or form.

I also see where the seller, and several others made an attempt to make it about anything else but the car, thread drift has occurred, as usually does, but at that same time the facts about the car, good, bad, and everything in between are coming to light as more eyes are being steered towards it. That is what this forum is about, others sharing their knowledge (or lack of in some cases), and their experience. To stifle such discussion, call people names, or make veiled threats because you do not agree with what is being posted seems a bit childish in nature and goes against the whole purpose for a site like this, which is to share knowledge and experience. Whether you can agree with everything posted in up to you, but so is how you interact with others.

Now, if you want to discuss the car vs the opinions and knowledge that has already been posted, and you disagree with what has been posted about the car and the quality of the build, or the parts used vs the price being asked, let's have at it. Nothing better than a good quality discussion to get the day going.

Bill S.

[mikeinatlanta]

I think talking about just the car is a great idea, so I did a little more looking at the photos. Trying to not hit the nit picky items. Does this about cover it?

Of note:
I don’t see a means of filling the cooling system, and no tank.
It has a power rack. Many consider that a big upgrade for a driver.
Exposed unfinished edges above the dash. High end builds rolled the edges.
Fuel and brake line issues need to be resolved.
Drum rear brakes with donor four link. (Fox mustang, not 65).
Donor front suspension (Fox mustang, not 65)
Oddly installed quick jacks
Paint issues with stripe alignment
Nothing to hold trunk open, however, trunk does appear to have been improved a bit since Vanguard sale.
No oil cooler. The empty hole at least needs a faux cooler.
The Vanguard pics show the drive shaft with dangerously little length into the tranny. In the ebay pics, this issue may have been corrected. Warrants a close look.
Shifter different from Vanguard photos. Different tranny may account for drive shaft issue being corrected.
Vin stamp may not be “original” FFR stamp.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

I've been reading this thread for entertainment, as I have no dog in this debate. However, when I got to the part about it having a Mustang VIN number, bells and whistles went off. As stated above, FFR issues its own MSO so every FFR can be registered and insured as what it is. Evidently someone bypassed the legal (at least here in CT) route to register this car. The question would be 'why?'. A lazy quick fix to avoid being inspected by DMV, or in the absolute worst-case scenario, a stolen car registered and stamped with a junked/missing Mustang title. As time goes by, all states will have interacting databases, and this doesn't even consider someone insuring this car with a classic car policy, as the company would certainly spot this VIN discrepancy. As stated before, this is a commentary forum, not a used car for sale page. Any info here will certainly be dissected by the sharpest Cobra replica minds around. I learn something new almost every time I log on (and I've been around a while), and of course witness lots of pissing too. This FFR Cobra is certainly an 'avoid at all costs' car unless the original MSO goes with it. Just my opinion.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Ok, stop for a moment and reread what you wrote:

First, Factory Five is not a skin over another body (like a VW kit car or dune buggy), they have their own chassis,and their own body. As such, they sell the chassis/body kit with their own MSO, listing their own VIN number (originally in a FFRxxxx), then going to a 17 digit format.


Second: Factory Five does not use, nor has ever been engineered to use a 1965 Mustang as a "donor".

Third: A 1965 Mustang VIN has been assigned to the car, whether that is or was legal in the original owner/builders state is all that really matters. That, and if the car it was used off of still exists, as the VIN database is now a shared database across the state lines.


Just thought you needed to know that.


As for the rest, I see no mob mentality here, what I see is a car posted to the ALL TALK COBRA subforum, which is now being discussed in greater detail than the broker who is selling it might have wanted. Yet, it was his choice to post it in this section, so he must have wanted us to discuss it in one way shape or form.

I also see where the seller, and several others made an attempt to make it about anything else but the car, thread drift has occurred, as usually does, but at that same time the facts about the car, good, bad, and everything in between are coming to light as more eyes are being steered towards it. That is what this forum is about, others sharing their knowledge (or lack of in some cases), and their experience. To stifle such discussion, call people names, or make veiled threats because you do not agree with what is being posted seems a bit childish in nature and goes against the whole purpose for a site like this, which is to share knowledge and experience. Whether you can agree with everything posted in up to you, but so is how you interact with others.

Now, if you want to discuss the car vs the opinions and knowledge that has already been posted, and you disagree with what has been posted about the car and the quality of the build, or the parts used vs the price being asked, let's have at it. Nothing better than a good quality discussion to get the day going.

Bill S.

^^^Exactly.

I'd be curious in which states, if any, where you could register a brand new kit car with a 1965 VIN, which was my original question several posts ago. This FFR kit car is NOT like building a 1957 Porsche Speedster replica with a donor VW chassis, like Vintage Speedsters builds here in CA. As they say, apples and oranges.

And if I'm a prospective buyer, how do you check to see if the 1965 Ford Mustang VIN was not a stolen car? I don't want to be the one to make an appointment with the CHP and ask them to verify it.

[Bernica]

My neighbor is with the CHP and this morning I ran into him as it was his day off. So I explained this "hypothetical" matter to him and asked his opinion.
He is also a car guy.

Without hesitation he said that if a car is hand-built with no VIN, then the State inspects it for safety, proper operation etc and can issue a VIN to the car if all proof (including receipts) is provided that it is truly a specially built vehicle. He said they do it with home made trailers all the time, but not too often with actual cars.

He also confirmed that the VIN (if present) has to go with the chassis. Similar to bringing in a re-bodied VW or Porsche, but the VIN HAS to match the chassis.

He said there is NO WAY I could roll in with a VIN on a custom built chassis without an MSO. When I asked him "what if it was a VIN from say, a Mustang" he said that as long as the whole chassis can be verified to be a Mustang it might work. Then he laughed and said that if it's some custom frame / chassis and has a Mustang VIN that's in the database and no MSO "Then you've got a real big problem".

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by Bernica

My neighbor is with the CHP and this morning I ran into him as it was his day off. So I explained this "hypothetical" matter to him and asked his opinion.
He is also a car guy.

Without hesitation he said that if a car is hand-built with no VIN, then the State inspects it for safety, proper operation etc and can issue a VIN to the car if all proof (including receipts) is provided that it is truly a specially built vehicle. He said they do it with home made trailers all the time, but not too often with actual cars.

He also confirmed that the VIN (if present) has to go with the chassis. Similar to bringing in a re-bodied VW or Porsche, but the VIN HAS to match the chassis.

He said there is NO WAY I could roll in with a VIN on a custom built chassis without an MSO. When I asked him "what if it was a VIN from say, a Mustang" he said that as long as the whole chassis can be verified to be a Mustang it might work. Then he laughed and said that if it's some custom frame / chassis and has a Mustang VIN that's in the database and no MSO "Then you've got a real big problem".

So what you are saying is that your neighbor has some sort of real/replica attitude and is also piling on with mob mentality? Some people...

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by mikeinatlanta

So what you are saying is that your neighbor has some sort of real/replica attitude and is also piling on with mob mentality? Some people...

I really think he was just stating the facts as he sees them based on his experience doing time at the DMV inspecting vehicles. No axe to grind or "mob mentality". Don't know where that one came from.

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by Bernica

I really think he was just stating the facts as he sees them based on his experience doing time at the DMV inspecting vehicles. No axe to grind or "mob mentality". Don't know where that one came from.

Referencing a couple of earlier posts from others. I'm guessing my sarcasm font didn't shine through. My apologies.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Bernica

I really think he was just stating the facts as he sees them based on his experience doing time at the DMV inspecting vehicles. No axe to grind or "mob mentality". Don't know where that one came from.

I believe it was sarcasm, but I could be wrong.

I remember going to my CHP appointment down in San Jose with my Kirkham. I didn't get the "regular" guy, because he retired or something. All I can remember is that I had all my paperwork, but still felt like he was treating me as guilty until proven innocent. I had a bail bonding company on speed dial just in case.

[Bernica]

Yeah, my neighbor was there when the State started the SB100 program and said they were constantly instructed to be hard line on it and "don't just give them away!"

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

I don't know where this 'Mob Mentality' thing came from. Many here on this board are absolutely helpful of anyone building, buying or thinking of buying a replica Cobra. There may be a little sarcasm from time to time, but overall there is lots of help dealing with build issues and DMV/registration issues. When I brought my car through CT DMV ten years ago, the inspector first spent one hour with all my paperwork, including the ERA MSO. After that he spent another hour inspecting the car (over, under around and through). He even broke my stones about it being loud although it passed with flying colors. Late in the inspection I mentioned it had a Jaguar-based rear, he warmed up some stating he once had an E-Type jag roadster. Either way, I would never try to bring a 'grey-papered' Cobra through DMV.

[rodneym]

Hey fellas! Looks like the regular band of gypsies is here.
So what's on the agenda for today?

Real vs Replica?
BB vs SB?
Open contributions to the "How much I hate Carroll Shelby" thread.

[mikeinatlanta]

[

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

I don't know where this 'Mob Mentality' thing came from.

While I plead guilty to being a sarcastic smartass, it came from Joe's Garage post #114 in this thread.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Hey fellas! Looks like the regular band of gypsies is here.
So what's on the agenda for today?

Real vs Replica?
BB vs SB?
Open contributions to the "How much I hate Carroll Shelby" thread.

BMI versus Hydrostatic Body Fat Testing. Your thoughts?

[rodneym]

I'm not falling for your trickery, Sir Knockers.

That's like HP and TQ.
Looking at the same house through a different window.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Hey fellas! Looks like the regular band of gypsies is here.
So what's on the agenda for today?

Real vs Replica?
BB vs SB?
Open contributions to the "How much I hate Carroll Shelby" thread.

You forgot a few:

BB's vs Avons
Avons with BB lettering
Toploader vs TKO
"Real" Continuations

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

I'm not falling for your trickery, Sir Knockers.

That's like HP and TQ.
Looking at the same house through a different window.

Actually, that analogy would hold true, if one of the two windows being looked through were opaque.

[rodneym]

Rodknock,
I don't want to know what goes on behind your opaque glass...

Bernica,
Don't you have Avons and a Toploader?
You poor, twisted soul.