Brands/builds most likely to hold value

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Here is a cobra, cost $240K to build. 0 miles. Never titled. Built this year 2016 and seller wants $199K. Where is the car hobby logic there? Build a car, dont drive it, and sell it for $40K less.

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBa...=1469980176080

No, that car would cost YOU (aka: The average weekend garage mechanic schmo, who pays retail for everything) 240k to replicate - It didn't cost C&C and Denbeste that much, and it is absolutely not being offered on Ebay at $199k without some profit built into the price...

That car has about 140K in Wholesale cost and labor wrapped up in it- C&C Auto probably brokered the build at about $160k, which spun up a fast, easy payday for Kirkham, SAI, and Denbeste...

My guess is that the first person who enters 175-180k, and hits the "make offer" button will have bought themselves a car. Since this one is being offered by it's "originating" Wholesaler, it hasn't had time to be be marked up by a whole series of flippers, each one trying to chisel another 10k out of the end market.

In that 180k range, and with the added bonus of licensed Shelby continuation documentation, this car might actually be a good deal for someone who actually WANTED a polished car with the word "Shelby" instead of "Kirkham" splattered all over the documentation.

Plus, C&C is probably anticipating a buyer that will use their partnering finance company on a 15 year classic car loan (which generates a small kickback of the finance charges, back to the seller)

And, of course the buyer will be out of state (or out of country), so an inflated "closed trailer delivery fee" can be tacked on...

There's still lots of chicken on this bone....

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

same way today?
We are in 2016.

You simply don't understand. The car is CSX4413. Shelby is building the 6000 series now. 4413 was purchased many years ago, when the roller was NOT $160,000 or whatever it is today. As an example, my roller Kirkham was $60,000-ish in 2007 and now Kirkham rollers are $100,000. So the cost to duplicate my car TODAY would be $40,000 more than 2007. Get it?

The interesting thing to me is that, here again, the new/"used" CSX market is $199,000 and under.

[Bernica]

I'd say that 4413 is a very nice $150k car.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

You simply don't understand. The car is CSX4413. Shelby is building the 6000 series now. 4413 was purchased many years ago, when the roller was NOT $160,000 or whatever it is today. As an example, my roller Kirkham was $60,000-ish in 2007 and now Kirkham rollers are $100,000. So the cost to duplicate my car TODAY would be $40,000 more than 2007. Get it?

The interesting thing to me is that, here again, the new/"used" CSX market is $199,000 and under.

Ah. Gotcha.
So the body/frame sat around for years. Then someone commissioned to finish the kit car in 2016.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Ah. Gotcha.
So the body/frame sat around for years. Then someone commissioned to finish the kit car in 2016.

Correct. The roller appreciated. And someone will be making a profit or already has.

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

You can get superfromance for mid 40k.

Where might those be found?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

Where might those be found?

At the top of CobraCountry.com, there's an SPF asking $52,900. I didn't have to even go beyond the 1st listing. It doesn't take a skilled negotiator to get any Cobra listed in the low 50's to be sold in the mid-40 range. Fast cash closes deals, just need a serious buyer and seller.

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

At the top of CobraCountry.com, there's an SPF asking $52,900. I didn't have to even go beyond the 1st listing. It doesn't take a skilled negotiator to get any Cobra listed in the low 50's to be sold in the mid-40 range. Fast cash closes deals, just need a serious buyer and seller.

That might be, a solid maybe.
Obviously there is a fair amount of latitude between any bid/ask but i have'nt heard of much in the way of a sorted SPF with any kind of decent motor that low, let alone common.

[Midcont]

I'd say you want a car with quality components in a classic color combo and of a later production. To me that would be a backdraft, spf or era after their respective body and chassis changes were made, with a 427 big or small block, from a known builder, with recognized drivetrain parts. At least that's what I was looking for in an spf when I looked. I didn't see an era come up that fit my requirements for a long period of time that was in a price range I was looking.

This is not to say there is anything wrong with any chassis number or engine combo...I'm just talking for easiest resale.

[LMH]

In general terms, cars that are closer to original will hold their resale value better. They also tend to be more expensive in the beginning as well and the closer to original in replication, the cost goes up fast. There are some variables of course but I'm speaking in general terms.
Larry

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

That might be, a solid maybe.
Obviously there is a fair amount of latitude between any bid/ask but i have'nt heard of much in the way of a sorted SPF with any kind of decent motor that low, let alone common.

Did anyone say "common"? I may have missed where someone said "common."

Look, you can defend your brand, hallelujah. I honestly don't care one way or another other than to say that there are many, I mean, many, SPF's on the market. There's a large supply of them, at least on Cobra Country. No idea about demand, but as I said earlier, it wouldn't take a skilled negotiator to buy ANY $50,000 (asking) Cobra replica for mid-40's. All it takes is a serious buyer and seller. And it's not even winter.

[BAsque1]

I am sorry for being bias but I also think that the West Coast Cobras (former Kellison) also hold their value as well in the mid $40 and up. Especially for the huskier clientele who are looking for a more spacious cockpit. Unfortunately, the customer support has suffered due to shake up at the top. Here is a nice looking example
http://www.cobracountry.com/cobra4sa...rohland-bc.jpg..

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Did anyone say "common"? I may have missed where someone said "common."

Look, you can defend your brand, hallelujah. I honestly don't care one way or another other than to say that there are many, I mean, many, SPF's on the market. There's a large supply of them, at least on Cobra Country. No idea about demand, but as I said earlier, it wouldn't take a skilled negotiator to buy ANY $50,000 (asking) Cobra replica for mid-40's. All it takes is a serious buyer and seller. And it's not even winter.

Well, post #2 seemed to indicate just that, and frankly, I'm not defending anything so how about taking it down a freaking notch.
CC has several and they average out a lot closer to $60 not $50.
There has been a fair supply for at least a couple years, but that said, sorted examples seem to go about 5%-10% below ask not 15%-20%.
Not withstanding personal emergencies, etc. have there actually been any decent examples in that area other than the occasional lousy auction result?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

Well, post #2 seemed to indicate just that, and frankly, I'm not defending anything so how about taking it down a freaking notch.
CC has several and they average out a lot closer to $60 not $50.
There has been a fair supply for at least a couple years, but that said, sorted examples seem to go about 5%-10% below ask not 15%-20%.
Not withstanding personal emergencies, etc. have there actually been any decent examples in that area other than the occasional lousy auction result?

"Lousy auction result"? Auction prices are REAL data points and are reported in auction magazines like Sports Car Market, which I receive monthly. There are no lousy results. There are just results.

And, I'm not dialing it up nor will I dial it down a "freaking notch." IMO, you seem to me to be defending SPF prices, which is fine, but the OP must be aware of your inherent bias. You can admit or not, I don't care. You're an SPF owner, so logically you will defend the brand, just like I would defend the Kirkham brand.

In general, Cobra replica prices are soft, because ERA, CSX, BDR, SPF among others, are still building them. There's no supply constraint other than economic conditions and those aren't very good right now for many areas of the country. I'm just talking about buying ANY Cobra replica that is asking in the $50,000-$60,000 range for mid-$40,000. It can and has been done.

All the %'s you state are just guesses, since none of us have any hard data. But I'll try to remember to post here a real result when I come across one in the future.

[Antny]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Kit cars always loose money unless the buyer is a moron.

It's "not a kit car". To wit: "Please remember, everything else on the market is a replica. This is the real thing and priced accordingly."

Yah. Someone is in some serious denial. Real thing? I don't think so.

PS - I bought my SPF #963 for exactly $45,000. Yes, they are out there, lots of them.

[Large Arbor]

I think the market tends to go up and down on these. Several factors tend to drive costs up including Kirkham, ERA, Superformance hold values well. Big blocks seem to be more expensive than the small block stroker motors.

The one thing for sure is they are getting more and more expensive to build as parts, engines and labor are all pushing higher. It would take close to $90k to build what I bought for much less today. I don't necessarily agree you can find big block 427's that are low mileage in the $40k range. I watch Cobra Country and just don't see them anywhere close to that. Educate if I am wrong on that, but it's just my opninion.

Phil

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Antny

It's "not a kit car". To wit: "Please remember, everything else on the market is a replica. This is the real thing and priced accordingly."

Yah. Someone is in some serious denial. Real thing? I don't think so.

I've become so numb to these statements that they don't even register with me anymore. You just have to remember, they're used car sales people.

Originally Posted by Antny

PS - I bought my SPF #963 for exactly $45,000. Yes, they are out there, lots of them.

Thank you. A real data point.

Again, to reiterate my point, the Cobra replica market tends to be soft. So ANY Cobra replica can be purchased for FAR less than asking price for a quick and easy transaction.

[Antny]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I've become so numb to these statements that they don't even register with me anymore. You just have to remember, they're used car sales people.



Thank you. A real data point.

Again, to reiterate my point, the Cobra replica market tends to be soft. So ANY Cobra replica can be purchased for FAR less than asking price for a quick and easy transaction.

Yup, bought mine about 6 months agao. To clarify; mine's a small block (392 Ford Racing), not a big block. (I didn't want a big block.) But I suspect a BB can be had at a similar price point if one tries hard enough. If I ever sell mine (doubt it, this has been on my bucket list since 1972 or so!), I'd be surprised if I was able to recoup my purchase price. Like you said; these replicas are being built every day, brandy new, ready for waiting customers to say yes. There is no shortage of them. Want one? All one needs to do is pick up the phone and call a dealer. Boom, done. So unless something changes to this very ample supply and demand chain, prices for these will always remain relatively low and negotiable. I think we go into these replicar purchases with the understanding that it's a fun thing that costs money, like boats, etc.

[Antny]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

I think the market tends to go up and down on these. Several factors tend to drive costs up including Kirkham, ERA, Superformance hold values well. Big blocks seem to be more expensive than the small block stroker motors.

The one thing for sure is they are getting more and more expensive to build as parts, engines and labor are all pushing higher. It would take close to $90k to build what I bought for much less today. I don't necessarily agree you can find big block 427's that are low mileage in the $40k range. I watch Cobra Country and just don't see them anywhere close to that. Educate if I am wrong on that, but it's just my opninion.

Phil

Asking prices are one thing, actual sale prices aren't a whole different thing.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Antny

Yup, bought mine about 6 months agao. To clarify; mine's a small block (392 Ford Racing), not a big block. (I didn't want a big block.) But I suspect a BB can be had at a similar price point if one tries hard enough. If I ever sell mine (doubt it, this has been on my bucket list since 1972 or so!), I'd be surprised if I was able to recoup my purchase price. Like you said; these replicas are being built every day, brandy new, ready for waiting customers to say yes. There is no shortage of them. Want one? All one needs to do is pick up the phone and call a dealer. Boom, done. So unless something changes to this very ample supply and demand chain, prices for these will always remain relatively low and negotiable. I think we go into these replicar purchases with the understanding that it's a fun thing that costs money, like boats, etc.

I totally agree.

And one more point. When money has been literally free for the past 8 +/- years, the stock market nearly at an all time high, prices of luxury items like Cobra replicas, tend to be good. I think most of us have forgotten the last time interest rates were high. There will be another day, when interest rates rise, our Cobras won't be selling as well.