Brands/builds most likely to hold value

[txcobra]

Originally Posted by chrisd0729

Back in the market for a Cobra and trying to decide if I'm best suited in my current budget range of 30-40k or, if I'm safer jumping into the 40-50k range to preserve resale value. I'd likely keep the car for a few years (3-5 or so as I get bored and swap out toys every few years) and would like to at least break even when I sell, if not make a few bucks. At my current range, I'm looking at home builds and seeing Backdrafts for mid to high 40k range. If the Backdraft holds its value beter, I'm ok spending the extra cash. Would love to go Superformance or Kirkham but, just can't hit that price range unless I sold my other toys and went with a single toy car.

What are your thoughts on brand if I wan to preserve resale value?

Thanks

Well in my opinion your thought process needs re-adjusting. Don't buy a car (toy) for resale purpose of hoping to break even or make a few bucks in 3-5 years. For example you may buy a cobra now for a decent deal of 40k but who is to say in 3-5 years that the cobra market may crash and you end up selling it for 30-35k. I have read allot on here and elsewhere to know that each manufacturer has their pros and cons of their cobra. Some are longer, some are wider, some handle better and so on. Lets say you do buy a cobra that holds it value because of its name but you don't like that particular manufactures car because it is not comfortable to drive, or handles not to your liking. Wouldn't you rather drive a car because it will give you 3-5 years of happiness and the love of driving it or because you will be able to sell it and break even.

What you should do is first join a cobra club or go to a cobra show and sit in each of the different makes of cobras to see which one you like the feel and fit of and maybe even drive a manual, automatic, big block, small block. Then once you figure out which car you feel great driving that is the one you should try and buy at the best price you can find and enjoy it and don't worry about the resale.

Just my opinion, and trust me i hate losing money on cars but i have owned enough in my life to realize that comfort and the enjoyment of driving are worth more than the resale potential.

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

"Lousy auction result"? Auction prices are REAL data points and are reported in auction magazines like Sports Car Market, which I receive monthly. There are no lousy results. There are just results.

And, I'm not dialing it up nor will I dial it down a "freaking notch." IMO, you seem to me to be defending SPF prices, which is fine, but the OP must be aware of your inherent bias. You can admit or not, I don't care. You're an SPF owner, so logically you will defend the brand, just like I would defend the Kirkham brand.

In general, Cobra replica prices are soft, because ERA, CSX, BDR, SPF among others, are still building them. There's no supply constraint other than economic conditions and those aren't very good right now for many areas of the country. I'm just talking about buying ANY Cobra replica that is asking in the $50,000-$60,000 range for mid-$40,000. It can and has been done.

All the %'s you state are just guesses, since none of us have any hard data. But I'll try to remember to post here a real result when I come across one in the future.

Last I heard defending anything as well as " inherent bias" requires a few opinions , you seem to be drawing a lot of conclusions from a couple questions .
You're right about lack of hard data, which is why when somebody mentions a price range, high or low, I figured maybe I'd query if that is fact or opinion based.......you know, to gain facts.

[Large Arbor]

Yes, while "asking vs. selling" price are different, when they are priced $10-$20k above $50k, I doubt you will find them for under $50k. Look at the big blocks on Cobra Country now. None are close to $50k....

Phil

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

"Lousy auction result"? Auction prices are REAL data points and are reported in auction magazines like Sports Car Market, which I receive monthly. There are no lousy results. There are just results.

And, I'm not dialing it up nor will I dial it down a "freaking notch." IMO, you seem to me to be defending SPF prices, which is fine, but the OP must be aware of your inherent bias. You can admit or not, I don't care. You're an SPF owner, so logically you will defend the brand, just like I would defend the Kirkham brand.

In general, Cobra replica prices are soft, because ERA, CSX, BDR, SPF among others, are still building them. There's no supply constraint other than economic conditions and those aren't very good right now for many areas of the country. I'm just talking about buying ANY Cobra replica that is asking in the $50,000-$60,000 range for mid-$40,000. It can and has been done.

All the %'s you state are just guesses, since none of us have any hard data. But I'll try to remember to post here a real result when I come across one in the future.

Come on, give me a break. I've been at auctions as well as having friends involved in buying at top shelf venues at prices up to seven figures and there are, with regularity, both bidder fever prices as well as " wrong crowd- wrong car" situations that arise here and there which are, have been, and always will be more atypical than not.

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

I think the market tends to go up and down on these. Several factors tend to drive costs up including Kirkham, ERA, Superformance hold values well. Big blocks seem to be more expensive than the small block stroker motors.

The one thing for sure is they are getting more and more expensive to build as parts, engines and labor are all pushing higher. It would take close to $90k to build what I bought for much less today. I don't necessarily agree you can find big block 427's that are low mileage in the $40k range. I watch Cobra Country and just don't see them anywhere close to that. Educate if I am wrong on that, but it's just my opninion.

Phil

Well at the end of the day I suspect your second paragraph is likely as big if not the biggest driver of quality used prices over time.
I followed these prices from the beginning and over many years came close to buliding Contemporary, ERA, and Kirkham, as well as early GT40. I had a shot at Oem Nascar side oilers, new halibrand wheels to aid, assist, drive possible projects which never got off the ground, usually do to other car projects or restorations, or investment considerations(real or percieved) in the hobby. Actually, I ended up with what I have as much as anything a case of right situation/ right time as well a a reminder of time and energy researching the whole cobra thing that never got off the ground 25 years ago.
One thing has run true and accurate over the span the of time is that while the supply of options has never been finite although somewhat limited, quality componants and cost of building , especially accurate replicas is going only one way, dragging well preserved, low milage, used examples along with them.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

Last I heard defending anything as well as " inherent bias" requires a few opinions , you seem to be drawing a lot of conclusions from a couple questions. You're right about lack of hard data, which is why when somebody mentions a price range, high or low, I figured maybe I'd query if that is fact or opinion based.......you know, to gain facts.

I'm having a hard time understanding your point.

My point is that you own an SPF and defended the value. This is what you said. "that low, let alone common" sounds to me like you're defending the value of the SPF. And you own one.

Originally Posted by Tim7139

That might be, a solid maybe. Obviously there is a fair amount of latitude between any bid/ask but i have'nt heard of much in the way of a sorted SPF with any kind of decent motor that low, let alone common.

The OP needs to hear that you own an SPF when you're offering your opinion of value on a SPF. Just watch CNBC in the morning. When someone comes on show and they recommend a stock to buy, the commentators/analysts will state if they own the stock or not. In the old days, they got in trouble for "pump and dump."

The other point I make is that if ANY Cobra replica is asking $50,000-$60,000, IN MY OPINION, a serious buyer (and seller) can buy that Cobra replica, SPF or not, for mid-$40,000. And we already have one SPF owner state he bought his SPF in the mid-$40's.

Auctions run all year long. Perceived high and low prices will form an average. Period.

More authentic FE builds will probably sell for more than less-than-"authentic" 351W builds, sure, I don't dispute that. That's the case for CSX's ERA's and CSX's too. But I don't see many FE SPF builds. And there are plenty of folks who just want something for about $50,000 and that's the market that will undoubtedly be the most active in sales. As the asking prices get higher, the buyer pool thins out.

Lastly, IMO, I don't think any of us can count on new roller prices continuing to keep going up. Interest rates will go up, the buyer pool is old and getting older, no one is getting rich making them, and at some point, I think they're going to legislate our gas burning environmental pigs off the road. Is it 5 years, 10 years, 20 years? In my case, just because CA gave us an exemption to drive them, CA can certainly change their mind someday. That's my opinion.

[Mark IV]

[quote=RodKnock;1400907]
.

Auctions run all year long. Perceived high and low prices will form an average. Period.



QUOTE]

Yes, auctions run all year. And the specialty car auction market is saturated....not with sales but with auctions! The market cannot support RM, Mecom, Sotheby's, BJ et.al. and continue to have a pool of qualified, willing bidders/buyers available week after week which the frequency of these sales now. The auction sales for most replicas are spotty at best. One day an iffy self-build FF5 goes for 90K, the next day a very nice SPF or BDR goes for 50. I contend that auctions are NOT the proper market for these cars and generally sell to bottom-feeder bidders who are opportunistic purchasers.

[RodKnock]

[quote=Mark IV;1400912]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

.

Auctions run all year long. Perceived high and low prices will form an average. Period.



QUOTE]

Yes, auctions run all year. And the specialty car auction market is saturated....not with sales but with auctions! The market cannot support RM, Mecom, Sotheby's, BJ et.al. and continue to have a pool of qualified, willing bidders/buyers available week after week which the frequency of these sales now. The auction sales for most replicas are spotty at best. One day an iffy self-build FF5 goes for 90K, the next day a very nice SPF or BDR goes for 50. I contend that auctions are NOT the proper market for these cars and generally sell to bottom-feeder bidders who are opportunistic purchasers.

Weird $hit happens on BaT and eBay too. It's just not confined to one place or another.

We have a local CC member who has had his gorgeous Kirkham for sale since about February on Cobra Country. Price has been lowered, but it's still there. So, is that the best place to sell it? Is it the seller (great guy BTW)? Is it the price?

Do Kirkham's suck?

Auctions scare the heck out of me, but they are data points.

[Dimis]

Yes you can vs No you can't...

Well while you squabble, here are some examples that can be had for a low price.
These all found with in the first dozen adverts here on ClubCobra. You don't have to look hard, but imagine if you did?


PhotoPost Classifieds - Superformance 1720 with Webers - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Start your offer at $30k Any advert without a price, or listed "best offer" is waiting, nay deserves to be insulted with low ball offers.


PhotoPost Classifieds - 2005 Superformance Cobra Mark III - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Here's another common theme I've noticed: Seemingly can find SPFs for mid $40s


And one more likely to fit the criteria outlined by our OP. ie: small block, with in porice range and likely to maintain its value.
PhotoPost Classifieds - Contemporary Cobra CCX 3012 - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Again no price, so insult away with low ball offers.


....and last but not least MY personal favourite Mid (possibly even low) $40s:
http://www.clubcobra.com/classifieds...uct=6599&cat=2


PS: As for those kiboshing the OPs plan of buy hold use sell for no loss, I say THANK YOU! Its because of attitudes like yours that I get the opportunity to enjoy the same as the OP. buy, hold, use sell for no real loss.

[RodKnock]

Here's a couple SPF's under $50,000 on eBay right now and they're local to me.

SPF w/392/Tremec, 18,568 miles and SB100 asking $49,995:
Other Makes Cobra Roadster | eBay

SPF w/392, 6,782 miles, asking $49,999:
Shelby Superformance mkiii Superformance | eBay

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Here's a couple...]

Naaah, you have to have an FE in it else it don't count.

[RodKnock]

These are eBay "completed" listings:

SPF 1889 Pearl Orange (I like, but I'm sure you can paint it too). $50,000 no bids:

Shelby Cobra Mkiii | eBay

SPF 2739 sold for $47,000:

Shelby MKLLL Cobra | eBay

SPF sold for $44,000, 460, 8,370 miles:

Shelby Cobra | eBay

Seriously, there are plenty of other SPF's listed, but not sold in the 50's and above. IMO, mid-$40's SPF is definitely possible, if not highly probable.

[Dimis]

In fact the more I look, the more mid $40 SPFs I see.
I've found 6 in under 10 mins with a simple search.
I'm thinking it wouldn't be beyond the realms of picking on up for $40K

[Dimis]

Bang here it is.
PhotoPost Classifieds - Superformance cobra -351w 5spd - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds

....and I've been looking for 20mins.


Sorry.... not trying to piss anyone's parade.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Naaah, you have to have an FE in it else it don't count.

To be more specific, if they don't have a 427 FE, then they don't count.

Just doing a few minutes of Hemmings, eBay, Cobra Country and here on Club Cobra(by Dimis), you can see that there are dozens of SPF's available. In fact, Hillbank probably has one, maybe two, DOZEN rollers and finished MKIII's available too.

Making a deal on a used SPF in the mid-40's right now doesn't seem to be all that difficult to me. I'd even call it "common."

[RodKnock]

Heck, there's even one (SPF1449) asking $52,900 at a local dealer here:
1965 Superformance MK III 427 Cobra

Another local asking $56,000 with an FE:
Superfomance Ford Shelby Cobra

Sitting on the market in Gold Country for a while now at $59,000 with a 408:
Superfomance Ford Shelby Cobra

Cash talks.

[Antny]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Yes you can vs No you can't...

Well while you squabble, here are some examples that can be had for a low price.
These all found with in the first dozen adverts here on ClubCobra. You don't have to look hard, but imagine if you did?


PhotoPost Classifieds - Superformance 1720 with Webers - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Start your offer at $30k Any advert without a price, or listed "best offer" is waiting, nay deserves to be insulted with low ball offers.


PhotoPost Classifieds - 2005 Superformance Cobra Mark III - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Here's another common theme I've noticed: Seemingly can find SPFs for mid $40s


And one more likely to fit the criteria outlined by our OP. ie: small block, with in porice range and likely to maintain its value.
PhotoPost Classifieds - Contemporary Cobra CCX 3012 - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Again no price, so insult away with low ball offers.


....and last but not least MY personal favourite Mid (possibly even low) $40s:
PhotoPost Classifieds - FIA ERA SHELBY COBRA - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds


PS: As for those kiboshing the OPs plan of buy hold use sell for no loss, I say THANK YOU! Its because of attitudes like yours that I get the opportunity to enjoy the same as the OP. buy, hold, use sell for no real loss.

It's not "us"....it's the result of supply vs. demand. Quite simply, there is more supply than there is demand. Why do you think that REAL Cobras continue to CLIMB in value? Yep; supply vs. demand.

[patrickt]

That $56k FE car didn't look half bad, from what you can tell from the ad.

[JoeT]

The reality is that there's a "theoretical floor" on all the brands. If bought right, you can drive any of these cars and not lose your shirt (providing you take care of it)

And each brand has it's own "floor". For example, You likely can't go wrong with a well built Factory Five at $30k, just like you can't go wrong with a $45k SPF, a $55K ERA, etc. The market may shift a bit, but if you buy a well built car well it shouldn't beat up your wallet 3 years down the road

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by patrickt

That $56k FE car didn't look half bad, from what you can tell from the ad.

Have Rod make a call for you, using his logic should get it for $41,500.