A.C. Cars Ltd. looking for info

[adv-ent]

Hi, To answer 1ntcobra's question. I am not sure why the original post disappeared? I was trying to add pictures and I guess I did something wrong and when I came back to the thread my stuff was gone.
This is the first time I have posted anything so I guess I have lots to learn.
I very much appreciate Larry's (LMH) help on this.
This car appears to have an original style chassis, the body looks like it has been hand formed but I am no expert, my friend had one of the first continuation series hand formed Shelby cars and his body was quite rough, I have never seen a Kirkham up close but by studying pictures the body looks pretty smooth even in rough form. This car I feels stands somewhere in between but it is not bad at all, lots of small detail sanding and filing to make it perfect.
Thanks again to Larry and anybody contributing to this post, if anybody has any questions or needs any specific photo's taken please let me know.
Brian

[1ntCobra]

How about a picture of the oil cooler scoop? The oil cooler scoop on a Kirkham looks slightly different than an original car. Also pictures of the front suspension towers showing how the plate with the circular holes is welded to the surrounding tubes. I think Kirkham frames are missing a welding detail found on the original frames. That detail might be called something like nibbles, but I am not sure of that. Also a picture of the panel behind the seats. Kirkham does not have the 427 style FIA suitcase bump behind the seats (not to be confused with the 289 style FIA style bump in the trunk lid).

[LMH]

If it's a Kirkham, wouldn't it have a Kirkham chassis number stamped on the shock tower?
Larry

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by LMH

Brian said the paint was ground away to expose the number better.
Larry

That sort of doesn't look right. First, the area is rusted. Second, if the numbers had been stamped with paint, there would be paint or paint residuals inside the stampings. It looks like the area was ground and then stamped.

[LMH]

Where else does Kirkham stamp the chassis? Door hinges?
Larry

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by LMH

If it's a Kirkham, wouldn't it have a Kirkham chassis number stamped on the shock tower?
Larry

Shelby puts the csx4xxx number on a plate welded over top of the Kirkham number. Is the cob0666 on the shock tower or somewhere else?

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

That sort of doesn't look right. First, the area is rusted. Second, if the numbers had been stamped with paint, there would be paint or paint residuals inside the stampings. It looks like the area was ground and then stamped.

It looks to me like the stamped numbers have primer inside of them. The primer looks quite thick compared to the paint. Had they removed the paint, it most likely would have been removed leaving the primer.

[adv-ent]

Hi, to answer some of the questions , the stamp is on the right shock tower and the brown you see is not primer but some surface rust.
This car does have the suite case bump in the aluminum behind the the seats, one of the latest photo's I sent to Larry shows it.
I can tell you when we first found the car 7 years ago we didn't even know where to look for the chassis numbers, then we where told to check the right shock tower, the powder coat was thick and the letters and numbers were hard to see so we scraped off the paint so we could read the numbers.
I know for a fact the numbers were stamped into the car prior to painting but when this was done that is the question. There is no other numbers anywhere on the car other than the ones you see in the pictures.
Not knowing much about COB numbers or any other original chassis numbers to me it seems strange that someone would stamp such an odd number knowing that there is actually no cars starting with o? If a person was trying to fool someone it seems a odd choice of chassis number to use?
Just my two bits.
You may ask why I waited for 7 years to ask questions, its because 7 years ago I couldn't afford to finish such an expensive car. I traded it for an other Cobra and now it has become mine again.
Thanks for all the interest.
Brian

[krausewich]

Hi Brian,
Where the cockpit rear aluminum recess towards the trunk (in between the rear wheel covers) would be 35-7/8" if it is a Kirkham. Their frames are not dimensionally accurate to an original, so the easiest way to weed them out as an option, would be to break out your measuring tape! That measure would be about 1.5" more if it were built to original specs; but that is the most glaring common difference that I have seen with their cars (427 and 289). Kirkhams are also generally TIG welded.

Good Luck,
Mike.

[MOTORHEAD]

My Kirkham (sn 28) does have the suitcase bump. 28 is also stamped on the door hinge.

[LMH]

Ok, so the door hinge is somewhere to look for a number. Is there a number anywhere else
like the trunk latch or hood latch?

Brian, I'll post a couple more photos tonight.
Larry

[krausewich]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8331lb0ina...2125P.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujywxvw20x...2125W.jpg?dl=0

CSX Door Mount plate and trunk catch ref...

MK.

[adv-ent]

Hi MK, I checked the door hinges and there is no numbers that I can see but the trunk catch has number 0666 cast into it? same as the chassis number.
I will forward a picture of it to Larry as well as the old looking key, stamped made in England that fits the trunk lock.
BK

[LMH]

Here's some more:















Note these aluminum hub carriers. Kirkham used to (or possibly still does) make these castings.
Larry

[LMH]

Couple more:







Larry

[cobrakiwi]

Great pictures,
I am still standing by my first guess, Kirkham built.
If not Kirkham built then it's a very nice copy of one of their cars,

The hood hinges look like Kirkham as well, the measurement across the rear bulkhead looks about right for a Kirkham.
The fuel tank could have been added any time but that looks very much like a Kirkham stainless tank.
Lots of little details.

Looks like you have a start to a very nice build.

[1ntCobra]

From what I have heard, the oil cooler scoop area on a Kirkham appear to have the look of a flat triangular shape in the upper corners that differs from other replicas. Apparently this is a very subtle difference...

Kirkham oil cooler scoops:





CSX1001 (produced by "AC" for Shelby):



CSX3035 (original):



COB 0666:

[1ntCobra]

And it would not be the first time someone replaced the Kirkham serial number on the frame. Here is a thread where the Kirkham number on the frame was replaced with the number "LAC 017". Apparently the first owner of the car in Europe did something interesting to get it registered there.

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/131200-replica-real-help-request-switzerland-italy-2.html"]Replica or real? [help request from Switzerland and Italy][/url]

Interestingly the person who started that thread, edited all of his posts to remove all of the content and the pictures. Maybe he did not want to get in trouble with European law enforcement.

[1ntCobra]

Also quoting myself from that thread, in addition to Kirkham here are some other thoughts on where an aluminum bodied car could come from:

In terms of manufacturers that have made aluminum bodied cobras, I can think of a few:
- AC (under the original owners, under Brain Angliss, under Alan Lubinsky)
- Brooklands New Build AC 427
- North Devon Metal Craft North Devon Metalcraft | Manufacturers of replacement steel and aluminium motor bodies
- Panel Craft Panel Craft LLC - Restoration of Classic Automobiles by Hand - Custom rolled Sheet Metal -- Bethlehem, NH
- Kimmons (which might be the company that did the body for Jay Leno's cobra replica??)
- McCluskey McCluskey Ltd. - Vintage Car & Aluminum Fabricators

[1ntCobra]

Also there is a very, very, very, very, very, very, very unlikely source of aluminum bodied replicas in Florida. But Jamo will almost certainly put anyone who mentions their name in a timeout from this site.

This car is far too nice to be from Florida.