A.C. Cars Ltd. looking for info

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Until Bill mentioned the name Kimmins, I honestly had never heard of them. I haven't seen one of their Cobras posted here.

Let's assume for the moment that the OP's car is a Kirkham, then a previous owner went through the process of eliminating any Kirkham serial/VIN numbers and then make the decision to add an AC plate and stamp COB #'s in a few places? From my side of the peanut of gallery that sounds like the beginnings of a deception to me.

Ding, Ding, Ding,

I think you may be getting warmer!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

Ding, Ding, Ding,

I think you may be getting warmer!

So, you're calling the OP a fraud? Wow, that's kinda rough. If you're planning to sell parts to the OP, then that may hurt your business prospects.

Do you see any evidence that the Kirkham serial numbers were all removed/ground off/acid dipped?

And the only problem with that theory is that it doesn't look like a Kirkham/CSX to me and the thickness of the radiator opening/mouth area is just one difference. And blaming it on a "camera angle" is a convenient excuse to fit your narrative.

As has been mentioned before, all the OP has to do is send the pictures to Kirkham and I'm sure they'll be happy to determine if the OP's car is indeed a Kirkham. Their customer service is excellent.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

So, you're calling the OP a fraud? Wow, that's kinda rough. If you're planning to sell parts to the OP, then that may hurt your business prospects.

I don't see any allegation the OP is a fraudster. The OP is not the original owner of the car. Any work to remove Kirkham traces and replace them with COB markings, assuming that's what actually happened, may well have happened prior to purchase of the car by OP. Further, if OP performed the aforementioned subterfuge, why would he raise it in a forum visited by those with expertise very likely to uncover his misdeeds?

FWIW, I believe OP's story in buying the car as he has described, and he came here legitimately seeking answers.

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

So, you're calling the OP a fraud? Wow, that's kinda rough. If you're planning to sell parts to the OP, then that may hurt your business prospects.

No Sir,
Wow lots of assumptions,




Do you see any evidence that the Kirkham serial numbers were all removed/ground off/acid dipped?


No, none that I can see,:
Some people do good work!

And the only problem with that theory is that it doesn't look like a Kirkham/CSX to me and the thickness of the radiator opening/mouth area is just one difference. And blaming it on a "camera angle" is a convenient excuse to fit your narrative.

Great, your opinion is loud and clear!



As has been mentioned before, all the OP has to do is send the pictures to Kirkham and I'm sure they'll be happy to determine if the OP's car is indeed a Kirkham. Their customer service is excellent.

I agree, Great people.

[peterpjb]

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

Agreed, Larry…but….

Nobody is trying to deceive anyone now…but what about when that "COB" was stamped onto the shock tower? It seems to me that was an act intended to deceive…an effort at defrauding someone, past though it may be.

Perhaps Mr. Bill is right…a talented amateur...but if they were so talented why did they not know that the "0666" number was already "reserved", so to speak.

Nothing to do with this current owner…but something doesn't pass the smell test about this car's history. Unfortunately, this current owner has now been involved quite unintentionally.

It may be a mystery that cannot be solved…if that's so, so be it…but it sure is curious!

Cheers!

Dugly

as long as nobody stamps an original cox-, cob- or csx -vin on a replica, i cannot see any deception, i think nobody mixes "cob 0666" with an original number

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by adv-ent

Dugly, No one is more curious than me on its actual manufacturer.
I think the COB number is also not a problem anymore and why it was put there in the past I don't think we will ever know but because now that I know it is not an original chassis number I would have it removed, problem solved.
Now we would have a chassis with no numbers, does it need numbers?
As far as I can read from this thread, a person can stamp what ever they want on a chassis because it is not a VIN number its more manufactures ID number and it would only become fraud if it was sold as something that it was not.
Correct?
Regards
BK

I believe you're correct. The only bogey I see is matching up a stamped VIN to a MCO or MSO, but you don't have one, so that goes away.

I know when I had my car inspected and registered in Saskatchewan they spent some time looking for a 2nd VIN on the frame to match the one on the decal provided by the State of Michigan (Michigan issued the original VIN). Ultimately they accepted there was no VIN on the frame but that wouldn't stop me from stamping one there - especially if the two matched.

You may wish to consult whoever is going to inspect / approve your car to query them about the best approach.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

I don't see any allegation the OP is a fraudster. The OP is not the original owner of the car. Any work to remove Kirkham traces and replace them with COB markings, assuming that's what actually happened, may well have happened prior to purchase of the car by OP. Further, if OP performed the aforementioned subterfuge, why would he raise it in a forum visited by those with expertise very likely to uncover his misdeeds?

FWIW, I believe OP's story in buying the car as he has described, and he came here legitimately seeking answers.

That comment was tongue-in-cheek.

But someone went through the trouble of riveting an AC ID plate on the car. And if it were an actual Kirkham/CSX, then someone went through trouble of removing the Kirkham VIN numbers everywhere, that's visible at least. Why do that? That seems awfully strange.

I'd ask, why not post it on the saacforum.com, which is where alot more Shelby Cobra experts hang out. Or send the information to Kirkham and have them give the OP their expert opinion.

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

I know when I had my car inspected and registered in Saskatchewan they spent some time looking for a 2nd VIN on the frame to match the one on the decal provided by the State of Michigan (Michigan issued the original VIN). Ultimately they accepted there was no VIN on the frame but that wouldn't stop me from stamping one there - especially if the two matched.

I suspect I will face a similar issue when I try to change my Texas registration over to Kansas, where I live now. I thought about stamping a matching number (the VIN is on the dash in the usual place, just not a second one on the frame) onto my frame and the only thing stopping me is that I worry that the newly stamped appearance would cause some suspicion…and alerting the very authorities who do the inspections as to the problem might well keep me from being able to EVER get it registered here in Kansas.

I could just phone in a general question…but they always ask for names and this county probably only has about 1200 people so it won't be much of a mystery who it was who called.

I do possess a valid TX title with the VIN on it…just do not have that second number the inspector wants to see.

Cheers!

Dugly

[cobrakiwi]

[quote=RodKnock;1406353]So, you're calling the OP a fraud? Wow, that's kinda rough.

Just to be clear!
No Sir, I am not accusing the op or any body of fraud!


Let me ask you the same,
are you accusing the op with fraud?

[RodKnock]

[quote=cobrakiwi;1406370]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

So, you're calling the OP a fraud? Wow, that's kinda rough.

Just to be clear!
No Sir, I am not accusing the op or any body of fraud!


Let me ask you the same,
are you accusing the op with fraud?

I'm unable to establish "criminal intent" over the internet. Though I did play a CSI detective on TV.

Notwithstanding, as long as that non-COB Cobra retains the riveted AC ID plate with a COB number and all other markings, if there were any to begin with, have been removed, mischievously or not, then a fraud may have or could be committed, past, present or future.

Hopefully, the OP will follow through and remove the AC ID plate and figure out a way to get rid of the other COB markings.

[cobrakiwi]

[quote=RodKnock;1406373]

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

I'm unable to establish "criminal intent" over the internet. Though I did play a CSI detective on TV.

Notwithstanding, as long as that non-COB Cobra retains the riveted AC ID plate with a COB number and all other markings, if there were any to begin with, have been removed, mischievously or not, then a fraud may have or could be committed, past, present or future.

Hopefully, the OP will follow through and remove the AC ID plate and figure out a way to get rid of the other COB markings.

Well glad we got that cleared up,

As for your opinion, sorry I don't agree with you, I hope the op does not remove anything until he has exhausted all avenues in finding out more regarding his car.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

Well glad we got that cleared up,

As for your opinion, sorry I don't agree with you, I hope the op does not remove anything until he has exhausted all avenues in finding out more regarding his car.

Cleared up? We've established it's NOT an AC, so why keep the AC ID plate riveted on it?

I've seen you build some very nice Cobras over the years, would you ever rivet an AC (or whatever marque) ID plate or stamped non-existent VIN's on one of your builds?

I know the folks over on the SAAC Forum would not be too happy about fake Shelby Mustangs and Cobras with fake ID plates running around the globe.

Personally, I actually object to putting any Shelby wheel caps, steering wheel center cap, exterior emblems, gas pedals, or any Shelby paraphernalia on my Kirkham, let alone a Shelby/AC ID plate. And if I weren't such a lazy butt, I'd change the valve covers from "Cobra LeMans" to plain jane Blue Thunder FE valve covers.

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Cleared up? We've established it's NOT an AC, so why keep the AC ID plate riveted on it?

Cleared up? The fact I'm not accusing anybody of fraud.


I've seen you build some very nice Cobras over the years, would you ever rivet an AC (or whatever marque) ID plate or stamped non-existent VIN's on one of your builds?

Thank you
No Sir, (to be honest, I can't remember if I added one of those cheap id tags on the foot box of my first replica or not, definitely would not stamp a fake csx#)



I know the folks over on the SAAC Forum would not be too happy about fake Shelby Mustangs and Cobras with fake ID plates running around the globe.

I think they will survive

Personally, I actually object to putting any Shelby wheel caps, steering wheel center cap, exterior emblems, gas pedals, or any Shelby paraphernalia on my Kirkham, let alone a Shelby/AC ID plate. And if I weren't such a lazy butt, I'd change the valve covers from "Cobra LeMans" to plain jane Blue Thunder FE valve covers.

Once again your opinion, I have no problem with that.

Let's take this to pm, as I am getting the feeling you want to make it personal?
As I am afraid this is getting off topic and adding no real value to the op!
Your call.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

Once again your opinion, I have no problem with that.

Let's take this to pm, as I am getting the feeling you want to make it personal?
As I am afraid this is getting off topic and adding no real value to the op!
Your call.

Oy vey. No opinions, nothing personal.

Fact 1, the OP's Cobra isn't an AC COB (or COX for that matter).

Fact 2, the OP's Cobra has COB markings and an AC ID plate.

Do you agree with those two facts?

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Oy vey. No opinions, nothing personal.

Fact 1, the OP's Cobra isn't an AC COB (or COX for that matter).

Fact 2, the OP's Cobra has COB markings and an AC ID plate.

Do you agree with those two facts?

O, got it, pm door is open!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

O, got it, pm door is open!

No, you can actually stop PM'ing me.

IMO, the OP should do two things.

1. Send the pics to Kirkham and let them tell the OP if it's a Kirkham. The mouth makes it obvious to me.

2. Remove the AC ID plate. It's not an AC. And I'd remove the "666" too, but maybe the OP likes the mystery story. I wouldn't, if it were my Cobra.

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

No, you can actually stop PM'ing me.

IMO, the OP should do two things.

1. Send the pics to Kirkham and let them tell the OP if it's a Kirkham. The mouth makes it obvious to me.

2. Remove the AC ID plate. It's not an AC. And I'd remove the "666" too, but maybe the OP likes the mystery story. I wouldn't, if it were my Cobra.

Right will do, you could have mentioned it in any one of your return pm's

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

Right will do, you could have mentioned it in any one of your return pm's

If you read the first sentence of my 2nd and last PM to you, I said "Stop PM'ing me." Maybe you missed it. Doh!

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

If you read the first sentence of my 2nd and last PM to you, I said "Stop PM'ing me." Maybe you missed it. Doh!

Got It! Like I mentioned a couple of posts ago

Must be tough not getting the answer your looking for!!

[adv-ent]

Hi OP here, I think the censes here is it can not be a COB 0666 and with all your help here I agree totally, so I will be definitely removing the AC tag and cutting it up as soon as I have time and I will post pictures of the destroyed tag. I will replace with a Shelby tag
As far as the COB chassis number I think it should also be ground out of the chassis. I have checked every location where I have been asked to look for numbers and I will tell you there are none, also there is absolutely no evidence of anybody removing any numbers, all the paint on the chassis is consistent and there are no marks of tampering anywhere.
In the end this car will have no manufacture stamps or numbers anywhere.
Like I have said from the being, I thought it would be nice to know where it came from especially because I still need parts to complete it.
That's all!.
BK