A.C. Cars Ltd. looking for info

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

In Utah, Kirkham assembles their cars on a rotisserie attached at the quick jack bolts. I posted a picture of that earlier in the thread. Maybe their location for the bolts balances the car better on the rotisserie?

Most rotisserie's have adjustments to adjust and compensate for a bodies center of balance - not difficult. The jack bolt locations would seem to indicate some sort of relationship between a KMP and the OP's body/frame.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

You mean besides the fact that there are no Kirkham serial numbers stamped anywhere on the car? And I mentioned a few differences in an earlier post.

And when you say KMS or SA car, they're for the most part the same, since Kirkham makes the bodies for SA. And actually produces almost the entire car for the 50th anniversary CSX's.

You site hinges, bolts and body. Bolts are actually from the same manufacturer as the stamping on head illustrates. The hinges look some what different, I agree but so do other Kirkhams when you search through photos of them. Guessing changes were made during production periods as newer/better tooling was purchased. What are the differences in the body though?
Larry

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by LMH

I can't seem to post the mouth of the Kirkham that is for sale on eBay, but one of the most obvious differences, to me anyway, is the thickness or lack there of the Kirkham's, in the upper half of the mouth. The picture of the OP's Cobra mouth, the upper half, is very thick.

Here's the link to the eBay Kirkham, no affiliation:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shelby-Cobra...m=191994248457

[Phx Mike]

If those are the frame cross members visible in that shot they also look a lot different than a Kirkham

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by Phx Mike

If those are the frame cross members visible in that shot they also look a lot different than a Kirkham

Can you elaborate on what you see regarding the cross member?

I am missing what you may be seeing

Thanks.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I can't seem to post the mouth of the Kirkham that is for sale on eBay, but one of the most obvious differences, to me anyway, is the thickness or lack there of the Kirkham's, in the upper half of the mouth. The picture of the OP's Cobra mouth, the upper half, is very thick.

Here's the link to the eBay Kirkham, no affiliation:
Shelby Cobra Kirkham | eBay

I see what you're talking about I think. Could that be the camera angle though?
Larry

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by LMH

I see what you're talking about I think. Could that be the camera angle though?
Larry

That's what I was thinking also Larry.

[Phx Mike]

The cross members on my car are round. These look elliptical. Maybe the camera angle but the OP would know.

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by Phx Mike

The cross members on my car are round. These look elliptical. Maybe the camera angle but the OP would know.

I see a lot of dust or grime but they look like round tube to me, I am sure the op could verify!

Look at post 68 from LMH, good picture there!

Thanks

[LMH]

Originally Posted by Phx Mike

The cross members on my car are round. These look elliptical. Maybe the camera angle but the OP would know.

Mike, They're round.
Larry

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by LMH

I see what you're talking about I think. Could that be the camera angle though?
Larry

I can't find a pic of a Kirkham, hunting around on the internet, that matches the thickness of the upper mouth of the OP's car. Doesn't look like a "camera angle" to me, but the lack of an actual Kirkham number anywhere on the car might could offer a hint too.

But as someone said earlier, just send the pics to Kirkham and let them answer the question.

[Phx Mike]

Originally Posted by LMH

Mike, They're round.
Larry

You're right - I missed that pic.

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

How you interpret Bill's words is your interpretation, it's certainly not mine. Bill is trying to help and he calls them as he sees them. He's blunt.

Two facts are known.

1. The car is stamped with a COB number. And it's not a COB. Describe it as you will, but as long as it retains that invalid COB # it can be passed off as a fraud, maybe not with the OP, but potentially some other owner in the future. There are plenty of examples of cars with invalid COB for CSX numbers in the Registry, two owners claiming the same COB or CSX number, etc.

So as long as this Cobra retains that COB number it represents the potential for fraud. That's the bottom line.

2. No one here has been able to determine the manufacturer of origin. IMO, the workmanship is well below that of a Kirkham/CSX and the body of the Kirkham/CSX and the OP's car have obvious differences.

Its also my interpretation Bill is wrong yet again on this one, (Kimmin's built)
Yes he is blunt, help? Not what I would call it

I think there has been a few people here point out more than enough points to determine the origin of the body/frame.

Workmanship looks great, one of the better ones I have seen


Fraud? Sorry I don't see it!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

Its also my interpretation Bill is wrong yet again on this one, (Kimmin's built)
Yes he is blunt, help? Not what I would call it

I think there has been a few people here point out more than enough points to determine the origin of the body/frame.

Workmanship looks great, one of the better ones I have seen


Fraud? Sorry I don't see it!

That's hilarious because I haven't seen any evidence that would identify any manufacturer of origin. It certainly lacks any Kirkham #'s.

If it's got an AC badge with a fake COB # on it and the fake COB # is stamped on the car, then it's looking a lot like a fraud to me.

Funny how people can have two different opinions based upon very little fact.

[YerDugliness]

So, guys….bottom line, do we know for sure the origin of this replica yet? I've read lots of speculation, just wondering if our experts have positively identified it or not. It looks quite well built to me…hard to believe a scratch builder could (or would) do so much to look like a commercially available product, but….hey, stranger things have happened!

Just wondering….??

Cheers!

Dugly

[cobrakiwi]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

That's hilarious because I haven't seen any evidence that would identify any manufacturer of origin. It certainly lacks any Kirkham #'s.

If it's got an AC badge with a fake COB # on it and the fake COB # is stamped on the car, then it's looking a lot like a fraud to me.

Funny how people can have two different opinions based upon very little fact.

Kimmin's built, Hilarious right?

Well you know what they say about opinions,

[LMH]

It's not fraud as no one is attempting to pass it off as something it's not.
Larry

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by LMH

It's not fraud as no one is attempting to pass it off as something it's not.
Larry

Agreed, Larry…but….

Nobody is trying to deceive anyone now…but what about when that "COB" was stamped onto the shock tower? It seems to me that was an act intended to deceive…an effort at defrauding someone, past though it may be.

Perhaps Mr. Bill is right…a talented amateur...but if they were so talented why did they not know that the "0666" number was already "reserved", so to speak.

Nothing to do with this current owner…but something doesn't pass the smell test about this car's history. Unfortunately, this current owner has now been involved quite unintentionally.

It may be a mystery that cannot be solved…if that's so, so be it…but it sure is curious!

Cheers!

Dugly

[adv-ent]

Dugly, No one is more curious than me on its actual manufacturer.
I think the COB number is also not a problem anymore and why it was put there in the past I don't think we will ever know but because now that I know it is not an original chassis number I would have it removed, problem solved.
Now we would have a chassis with no numbers, does it need numbers?
As far as I can read from this thread, a person can stamp what ever they want on a chassis because it is not a VIN number its more manufactures ID number and it would only become fraud if it was sold as something that it was not.
Correct?
Regards
BK

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cobrakiwi

Kimmin's built, Hilarious right?

Well you know what they say about opinions,

Until Bill mentioned the name Kimmins, I honestly had never heard of them. I haven't seen one of their Cobras posted here.

Let's assume for the moment that the OP's car is a Kirkham, then a previous owner went through the process of eliminating any Kirkham serial/VIN numbers and then make the decision to add an AC plate and stamp COB #'s in a few places? From my side of the peanut of gallery that sounds like the beginnings of a deception to me.