Contemporary

[feadam]

Looks like someone got a good deal
1966 Shelby 2 Door
( 262819390612 )

[moore_rb]

Smokin deal....

[66gtk]

Here's the link: 1966 Shelby 2 Door | eBay

Smoking deal? I think the seller is fortunate here. However, I realize my standards are different than most. Also, that VIN is a problem as it was taken from a different vintage Ford. (:

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by 66gtk

Here's the link: 1966 Shelby 2 Door | eBay

Smoking deal? I think the seller is fortunate here. However, I realize my standards are different than most. Also, that VIN is a problem as it was taken from a different vintage Ford. (:

It looks like a good deal for the purchaser, though as a "barn find" it's difficult to assess or understand how much work the car needs.

The misappropriated VIN, OTOH, could be a big problem.

[mrmustang]

Not to be Debbie Downer here, but a close look at the car, and that 27K purchase is going to be some real headaches for the new owner. Bolt on wheels aside, there is enough rust (surface and otherwise) in and out to suggest a tough life, rear end that has been ridden hard, really hard, an engine that has not been rebuilt in the last ten years, and most certainly puts out less than half what the seller purports. Besides the nice body, I see everything having to be torn down and gone through, transmission, engine, cooling system, wiring and especially the rear end. If you can do it all yourself, under $10,000, if not, more than double that


Bill S

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by 66gtk

Smoking deal? I think the seller is fortunate here. However, I realize my standards are different than most. Also, that VIN is a problem as it was taken from a different vintage Ford. (:

I have to agree. Aside from the rough condition of the vehicle, the aesthetics of that high riding chunky Contemporary bodywork are a complete deal breaker for me. The rear bodywork sits so high it swallows up the roll bar.
These things are no more accurate in appearance than early FFR's, yet people continue to laud them as the holy grail.

I'd think twice if someone offered me money to haul it away. Seriously.

[redmt]

Hey Buzz! How ya been? Of course you wouldn't haul it away. The freight alone would be a killer for you.

[Thor maine]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Not to be Debbie Downer here, but a close look at the car, and that 27K purchase is going to be some real headaches for the new owner. Bolt on wheels aside, there is enough rust (surface and otherwise) in and out to suggest a tough life, rear end that has been ridden hard, really hard, an engine that has not been rebuilt in the last ten years, and most certainly puts out less than half what the seller purports. Besides the nice body, I see everything having to be torn down and gone through, transmission, engine, cooling system, wiring and especially the rear end. If you can do it all yourself, under $10,000, if not, more than double that


Bill S

Or you could just get in and drive the Hell out of it and enjoy it! And not worry if you have to use a lug wrench or a hammer to take a tire off. With #110 it is past the "prototype" cars and should be very good and a whole lotta fun.

[86Sebring]

Seller states the engine is a 428

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by redmt

Hey Buzz! How ya been? Of course you wouldn't haul it away. The freight alone would be a killer for you.

Lol! You got me John! It would cost me about $45000.00+ in customs and import duty fees to get it home even if it was given to me for free.

I'm doing well - hope all is well with you too.

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by Buzz

the aesthetics of that high riding chunky Contemporary bodywork are a complete deal breaker for me. The rear bodywork sits so high it swallows up the roll bar.

I don't see that. I see a roll bar that is at least 6-8 inches too low (compared to the windshield frame.)

Originally Posted by Buzz

These things are no more accurate in appearance than early FFR's, yet people continue to laud them as the holy grail.

I won't touch that comment with a 10-foot pole. Everyone is entitled to their opinion... But I've seen enough Contemporary Classics, and enough early Factory Fives, to say that I don't understand your point of view, at all...

Originally Posted by mrmustang

there is enough rust (surface and otherwise) in and out to suggest a tough life

I don't see that, either. I see the normal rust and road grime of a properly driven car- One that has probably been out on some wet roads/rainy days.

I don't see anything in the pictures to suggest that it has been improperly maintained. Every greasable fitting has grease film around it (which is good- dry, crusty zerks are bad)

Originally Posted by mrmustang

rear end that has been ridden hard, really hard

Impossible to deduce from pictures; Unless you are magical enough to look at a picture of a bellhousing, and tell us that the throwout bearing is bad...

A leaky rear end cover gasket shouldn't be a deal breaker.

Originally Posted by mrmustang

an engine that has not been rebuilt in the last ten years, and most certainly puts out less than half what the seller purports.

The ad says it was rebuilt 5 years ago, and you say 10... Whoever has the engine-builder's invoice is right, and the other one is wrong.

HP and torque ratings are, again, impossible to deduce from pictures.

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Besides the nice body, I see everything having to be torn down and gone through, transmission, engine, cooling system, wiring and especially the rear end. If you can do it all yourself, under $10,000, if not, more than double that

And it is here that we come to the krux of the discussion.... for 27 grand, the buyer got a Cobra kit that is roughly equivalent in cost to a Unique Deluxe Pallet Kit, Or a Hurricane kit with an IRS upgrade, or an equivalent ERA 427 kit... (actually, this car was a little bit less than those- I'm rounding off to a solid 30k baseline)...

True, this car is still a few grand above what a new, non-doner FF mkIV kit with IRS upgrade would cost, but it's still pretty close.

So...:

-The paint job and the bodywork were free
-The running FE was free
-The clutch and the toploader were free
-The wheels and tires were free ( although I do admit that they are a zero-value adder, and offer nothing more than the utility function of being able to roll the car around)

The cost of assembly is a wash, because I do agree that this car should be properly gone through from one end to the other, by someone who knows what they are doing. However, for a solidly-skilled DIY-er, this car could be out doing donuts, and reliably driving down the highway, for WAAAAAAAY less than 10 grand, and when it's done, the owner would have a nice, correct appearing 427 replica, for about the same total money that someone is going to shell out by building a base Factory Five/5.0 Foxbody donor kit...

(I'm not dissin' any of you Factory Five donor guys- I think you're all cool. )

So, I guess I agree (somewhat)- Maybe it's not a "smokin deal" for 90% of the dudes who post on this forum, and have to shell out $80 an hour every time their car develops a misfire, or their fuel gauge sender quits working...

But, for a guy like me, who sees a well designed (and well engineered) Cobra kit car, which also includes a free powertrain and paint job, this car is a smokin deal...

[Buzz]

Robert - sorry for coming across sounding overly critical and denigrating of the brand. My peeve is not with Contemporary replicas or the fine folks who own them, just with the enduring myth about the visual accuracy of the later, post-alteration cars. The alterations to the body shape are distinctive and the whole thing is well documented in other threads. I have to say that this only matters to those who are obsessed with the shape - most others wouldn't notice or care.
Contemporary replicas are for the most part well engineered, high quality cars built by owners who tend to value details and quality. I just wish they had left the original shape, fenders, wheel openings, etc. alone.

[mrmustang]

Robert,

No need to argue one way or the other as neither of us purchased the car. Of course as far as the car itself, the difference here is, I've bought similar cars, over a dozen of them that look just like this one or better and have gone through each and every one of them, because I had to, not because I wanted to. So while you see one thing, my slightly more experienced eyes sees another.

Bill S

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

It looks like a good deal for the purchaser, though as a "barn find" it's difficult to assess or understand how much work the car needs.

The misappropriated VIN, OTOH, could be a big problem.

Only if you consider committing a Federal crime "a big problem."

What a POS. Sorry, but $27K for "that" should be a Federal crime.

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by 66gtk

that VIN is a problem as it was taken from a different vintage Ford.

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

The misappropriated VIN, OTOH, could be a big problem.

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Only if you consider committing a Federal crime "a big problem."

It's only a federal crime to forge (or misappropriate) a 17 digit, NHTSA coded VIN number.. and that 17 digit format did not become federal law until 1981, and component car companies have always been exempt from the law since it's inception... Which is why most component Cobras get a non-NHTSA compliant, state-issued number when they get registered.

The number stamped on this car, and is being called the "VIN" is an older Ford number format (this particular number came from a base 66 Mustang hardtop)

But, as long as the number on the car matches the number on the title document, most states are going to issue a transfer title without batting an eyelash...

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Robert - sorry for coming across sounding overly critical and denigrating of the brand. My peeve is not with Contemporary replicas or the fine folks who own them, just with the enduring myth about the visual accuracy of the later, post-alteration cars.

Originally Posted by mrmustang

No need to argue one way or the other as neither of us purchased the car. ... So while you see one thing, my slightly more experienced eyes sees another.

Yup, fair enough with both of you- My post did come across as argumentative, when my real intention was just to offer an alternative point of view... sorry about that.

All good.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by moore_rb

It's only a federal crime to forge (or misappropriate) a 17 digit, NHTSA coded VIN number.. and that 17 digit format did not become federal law until 1981, and component car companies have always been exempt from the law since it's inception... Which is why most component Cobras get a non-NHTSA compliant, state-issued number when they get registered.

The number stamped on this car, and is being called the "VIN" is an older Ford number format (this particular number came from a base 66 Mustang hardtop)

But, as long as the number on the car matches the number on the title document, most states are going to issue a transfer title without batting an eyelash...

No, VIN swapping is illegal. You cannot take a VIN tag from '66 Ford Mustang and rivet it to another vehicle. A state may register it, but that doesn't make it legal. You can't rely on your local DMV employee to be an arbiter of what's legal or not. Once a VIN tag is removed from a car, then the ViN tag must be destroyed. And component cars don't have an exemption.

[RodKnock]

And one of the reasons is that cost to the owner to register a '66 Mustamg is going to be much cheaper than registering a Cobra replica, say like my Kirkham due to valuation difference. So, you're taking money away from your local state and/or county.

[feadam]

I agree with Thor Maine, just drive the hell out of it. Isnt there a guy that has an original thats Gold that left it exactly as he bought it and drives it.Sometimes its just as much fun to drive than to brag about no dirt or grease on it.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by moore_rb

It's only a federal crime to forge (or misappropriate) a 17 digit, NHTSA coded VIN number.. and that 17 digit format did not become federal law until 1981, and component car companies have always been exempt from the law since it's inception... Which is why most component Cobras get a non-NHTSA compliant, state-issued number when they get registered.

The number stamped on this car, and is being called the "VIN" is an older Ford number format (this particular number came from a base 66 Mustang hardtop)

But, as long as the number on the car matches the number on the title document, most states are going to issue a transfer title without batting an eyelash...

the swap itself is indeed considered illegal, as it uses an "existing" VIN taken from another car. However, I have known a few early Cobra replica owners who used a 1960's style VIN, but it was a number sequence that was never actually produced by Ford (IE: a number after the end of official production), thereby making it "creative" but not illegal, as the number used never existed on an actual production car. Still a slippery slope, but technically not a Federal Offense


Bill S

PS: For Google searches in the future "Contemporary Classic 110" & "6F07T370386"