Best Track Car

[fastd]

I know that this is super subjective, but from those that have driven all types, how much better/worse is the track performance, say at a road course like VIR or similar, is a Cobra vs. a Daytona vs. a GT40...

Just curious...have long lusted after a GT40 and have thoughts of adding a Daytona or GT40...

[Ron61]

I haven't been on VIR but here at our road track I have had a roadster and now have a Daytona Coupe. The Coupe is better at least to me as it has more aerodynamics and handles just as well or better than the roadster. I haven't had a chance to drive a GT-40 on a track bit I imagine it would be as god or better than the Coupe.

Ron

[fastd]

which make Coupe do you have?

[MesaMaui]

Hi I’m selling my competition1965 FFR Daytona Coupe just in case this is something for you

This stunning new Factory Five 1965 Shelby Daytona Coupe replica was built to exacting specifications as a Street legal purpose built race car for road racing by Levy Racing in 2017 with only 500 miles. The car weights only 2300 lb (1043 kg), incredible power to weight ratio and dare to be unique at every Race event world wide

The car includes a small block all aluminum 400 C. I. Dart 10.5 to 1 compression endurance race engine with 650HP and Dry sump oil system. G-Force Nascar 4 speed magnesium cased transmission, Jones Racing HTD pulleys, and QA1 fully adjustable shocks with Eibach springs. It also comes with a Quartermaster 8.5” triple disk racing clutch, custom heat exchanger for oil cooling, custom made powder coated cockpit panels, and custom made racing headers, collectors, and quick change side pipes (there are one set of straight pipes and one set of muffler pipes).

The accessories are plentiful! They include a quick release collapsible steering column, a custom offset mounted Fuel Safe, custom radiator mounting, an Spal hp fan, a Firebottle 5lb halon fire suppression system, a quick detach valance & splitter, billet control arms, custom Ford Racing 2015 IRS with CrMoly Driveshaft, Wilwood 6 piston brakes, 2 sets of 10.5”+18” alloy Enkei race wheels, Wilwood pedal set, custom billet reservoirs, Kirkey Racing Seats, and more! This Shelby is fully caged and approved for all Racing organizations NASA, SVRA, SCCA, VARA, SOVREN etc.

it's the classic ultimate racing machine with the performance of newer super cars like Porsche’s GT3 and Corvette Z06’s ! This Shelby Daytona Coupe would truly make Carroll Shelby proud.

$89900



Video https://youtu.be/hWOGi72JVVk

[twobjshelbys]

The Daytona Coupe was bested by the GT40.

But if you're looking for something you can whip around the track and are not locked into vintage racing, then you should look at a Corvette. The Z06 is the best track monster for the price on the planet and you can pick up a low miles car from someone that has only used it on the street and switch it to track use for about 50c on the dollar. They build tons of them and so are not considered an investment. Bob Bondurant's school in Phoenix used Corvettes before they switched to the Dodge offerings. I was skeptical at first haven driven older Corvettes and didn't consider them a real track-worthy car, but the Z06 (and the lesser version with the same car except for the non-dry-sump engine)) genuinely surprised me.

Also, Ariel Atom.

As a dedicated racer, Radical makes a really hot car.

[Snake2998]

In my very limited experience of GT40 vs Cobra on track days - the GT40 (CAV) is more forgiving and a lot faster with higher levels of grip and a lot less wind buffeting(zero) and overall less frightening. The Cobra gives more warning that you are over cooking things and easier to steer on the throttle. Both will kill you if you take liberties beyond your skill level. Take your choice!!!
The GT40 is the less visceral experience of the two but still great fun.

[fastd]

MesaMaui,
Very nice. All that and only 500 miles...!?

twobjshelbys,
Do you have a source for the "Daytona Coupe was bested by the GT40".
Respectfully, I'm not interested in a new Corvette but I agree, probably easiest, cheapest way to go fast.

[fastd]

anyone drive/own/owned both the daytona and gt40?

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by fastd

twobjshelbys,
Do you have a source for the "Daytona Coupe was bested by the GT40".

Huh? Aren't we living on the same planet? Where were you in 1966 when the GT40 took 1-2-3?

[Millsy]

Rent an ariel atom for a trackday I did and it was insane. Sportbike fast!!!

[MesaMaui]

I race both the Daytona and GT40 and to me they are very close in performance

[fastd]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Huh? Aren't we living on the same planet? Where were you in 1966 when the GT40 took 1-2-3?

I see; I meant, did you read a current story that compares performance of the reproduction cars like FFR, Superformance, Kirkham.

Hard to answer where I was in 1966 - not born yet...let me know if you have any ideas.

[Morris]

Fastd

We've run many Race Track around the country and the times are the tale-tale difference in all cars. It actually requires 3 segments ...The Driver/ The Car/ Preparation of the Car & Crew.

KMP259's times have been much faster then the GT-40's and Daytona's, infact we have been running competitive times with the SCCA GT-2 Cars. Although KMP259 is classified as a GT-1 car.... it is not competitive in the GT-1 Class as they are specific built cars and are very quick, and very expensive.

The tracks we run are Road America .... which is a High HP track and tough on brakes and Gateway International which is a Handling track that requires better handling characteristics and Autobahn and it as well is a half and half HP/Handling track.

Anybody can hop in a car and drive around a track.... but as I said the Vehicle has to be prepared to do that specific track and the Driver has to know that track and then the Preparation has to be tuned to that track. Obviously we are very thought out prior to going to a track, but that is what keeps us Safe and Safety is our main concern as we are running at speeds in excess of 186 mph. things happen fast so now you see why we are serious.

Here's a couple of photo's of KMP259 at a test session last year.

[Jim Vander Wal]

Primary track experience is Superformance Cobras. Gingerman, Grattan & VIR. Have also driven a Superformance GT40 on the street and track (VIR) and a Superformance Daytona Coupe on Grattan. The GT40 and Coupe were short test runs so my experience is limited.
The GT40 isn't a great street car but it I liked it on the track. The Coupe is the best of all worlds, it's good on the street and track.
I'm building a Factory Five Challenge Car for track and street but that choice is more budget based than anything else.

FYI John George Racing is selling a one season Factory Five Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe. This is an established race car. Would be my choice.

Jim

[t walgamuth]

I believe historically that the Daytona did beat the GT at times on track, depending on track and drivers. ...perhaps only before the GT got fully sorted.

[Tom Kirkham]

Best car to learn how to drive on a track, is a Spec Miata.
Best car to learn how to race against other cars is a Spec Miata.

[1795]

Originally Posted by Tom Kirkham

Best car to learn how to drive on a track, is a Spec Miata.
Best car to learn how to race against other cars is a Spec Miata.

Tom,

I would add to that list an MGB or similar under-powered car. If a person is interested in learning to race or even do track days. Start low with the power and learn to drive the line and then slowly build the power up as you increase your skill set. Have run across too many people on the track who started out with a lot of power and never learned how t drive. To much power can scare you and also allows you to try to make up for mistakes that you never learn to correct. You can not jump on the power after driving a poor line in a corner and make up for that with a low HP car.

I wanted to start out with a Mustang and was luckily talked into starting with the MGB and learning how to drive the line. When I was doing well with the MGB it was time to move up to the 289 FIA.

Jim

[Alfa02]

Yes, I agree with Tom Kirkham, and 1795. They are called momentum cars, You can always overcome your mistakes with HP, but TRY to make up a .1 of a second when you & the guy your racing with have pretty much the same HP, it makes you a much better driver (Smooth, and Flow are words you will hear), then go get some HP. I never needed to (Had way too much fun, with those under 2liter guy's). Try any of the Alfa's, great handling, some HP, and pretty forgiving, unless you put a locked rear end, then you drive with the throttle, anything less then 9.5, and they will understeer straight off And yes I'm partial to ALFA's.

[Buzz]

You guys are so right. I remember racing go-karts on a tight, twisty track as a kid. The karts were really top notch and could build up a good bit of speed, but with miniscule levels of torque, accelleration was less than spectacular. It didn't take long to learn that hotdogging into the turns and scrubbing off speed was a death sentence and smoother, more consistent driving was the way to win the race.

[Three Peaks]

You can get into a FF5 Cobra spec racer used for around $20-25K and have a bunch of fun for little money. Brakes last most of the season, the engines aren't run hard as they are basically stock, and all the other parts are pretty basic and cheap/easy to replace. Even tires would last a good while. Probably most fun for the money.
Each of the other cars you've asked about is going to be a very big step up in cost and complexity, especially the GT40, which I doubt you'll be able to campaign in any race series for less than $125K initial investment and a very good pit crew and expensive spare parts. Transaxles aren't as easy to source as a 5 speed transmission and GT40 parts aren't exactly off the shelf parts like Cobra and Coupe parts mostly are.

David is absolutely right about the Miata racers. Club racing is the best way, IMO to get into racing and learn how to drive well. Then you can decide if you want to move up to high HP or just continue to have fun. Ask any Cobra driver who has done a track day and gotten passed repeatedly by the Miatas in the field...

Another suggestion if you want speed at moderate cost. I've been watching the Mazda open wheel racers for several years at the SCCA races around here and they are having more fun than anyone on the track. Running sealed Mazda 4 cylinder engines in an open wheel and very light car is a recipe for fun and very tight competition within the class. And if you check their lap times, most Cobras except for possibly Morris's super prepared and expensive Cobra will come close to competing with them. And the best part, you can get into a used one in good condition with many spare parts for around $15-20K to start. Same as the Spec racer Cobras, the parts are off the shelf Mazda parts mostly, calipers, rotors, pads, wheels, engine parts, etc... and are cheap and easy to find and change. This is all information I gleaned in a couple quick afternoons BS'ing with these guys at a couple races.

If it were me, I would go to a couple races and get pit passes. Talk to the guys who are having the most fun and start asking questions. Go from there.

Bob