Problems Installing XKE Rear End In Arntz

Jim Coleman · #1 (**permalink**) 03-24-2018, 06:57 PM

I'm having a problem installing the XKE rear end in my Arntz.

Got tired of it slipping off the jack, and built a small angle iron frame that bolts to the bottom of the rear end chunk and that frame is bolted to my floor jack. (The frame will swivel from side to side on the jack).

With the rear end completely assembled, when I get the tie bar shafts in the holes in the frame and they're tightened down, there's still about a 1/4" space between the washer and the frame mount.

With the tie bar shafts mounted, the rear end is not level under the frame mounting plate. (high in the front, low in the back).

I'm assuming that the mounting plate layout is the same as the top of the XKE rear end.

I've tried raising the front of the chunk to try and level it out, but after just a little bit of jack movement, it raises the whole car.

My next thought was to take off the swing axles and carriers and everything else but the rotors and caliper holders to try and make the top mount fit and then put them back on.

I'm worried about the tie bar shafts fitting back into the holes in the frame, plus they were tough to install in the distance tubes on the rear end. It's all going to have to line up perfectly to make it work.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated..........

Thanks,

Jim

legenmetals · #2 (**permalink**) 03-24-2018, 11:40 PM

I noticed the same issue last week when mocking up my diff. housing.

I am replacing my series-1 with the XJS unit. I found the side brackets to be different between the two housings. I will have to use the XKE brackets with the XJS diff. housing.

I am not sure if using the mixed parts is causing my misalignment. My remedy is to open the hole in the frame crossmember and locate all the parts using an additional washer over the fulcrum shaft that I will locate and weld to the back side of the crossmember.

legenmetals · #3 (**permalink**) 03-24-2018, 11:45 PM

Which direction is your misalignment? The brackets use horseshoe shims for rear end alignment which would be a lateral movement of the shaft. My misalignment is vertical.

joyridin' · #4 (**permalink**) 03-25-2018, 06:32 AM

There are spacers that go between the bracket and frame. One side uses a 1/4" and the other size uses maybe a 1/8". This is due to how the brackets mount on the differential. One side sits further back than the other.

The brackets are different for different model Jaguar cars. Rally made a comment about this in another post a few weeks ago and I did some investigating. The brackets are basically the same, but the mounting hole location changes position. You should be able to see the difference in the 4 holes from one set of brackets to another. This is related to how the differential originally sat in the car. To get the proper driveshaft alignment, Jaguar tipped the differential for different applications. When they tipped the differential, they still needed the lower control arms to run roughly parallel to the ground, so they changed the mounting hole locations. They also look slightly different over the years. An early Jaguar XKE set does not have the 4 holes on the bottom and the casting look a bit different. These are pretty valuable and if these the ones you have, you might consider finding a set for a later XKE and selling the early model units. I believe this is casting number: C20481. Some company was going to make them again for about $1000/set.

So yes, a set off a XJS would probably not fit an Arntz unless they originally used a XJS set. Same with your Contemporary. Rally stated he switched from a 6 degree set to a zero degree set and it improved his handling. From what I can tell, this is not possible without a fair amount of modifications. I sent him a PM about it, but he never replied.

Jim Coleman · #5 (**permalink**) 03-25-2018, 07:14 PM

Update:

Joyridin' and I have been burning up the emails off list about this situation.

I disassembled the rear end down to just the chunk, and got it mounted to the Arntz top mount on the Jag rear.

Now, the rear tie bar bolts are off about 1 ". They won't work in the Arntz frame holes.

Joyridin' says I have the wrong fulcrum brackets, and the correct ones may not be available.

He's trying to figure out a way to help me make it work.

Thanks,

Jim

Buzz · #6 (**permalink**) 03-25-2018, 07:35 PM

Really interesting thread. I have two sets of brackets; one from the older series 1 suspension and the other from the XJS series 2. I bolted the newer set to the series 1 diff simply because they were easier to clean up, but this thread has me thinking about double checking the hole measurements just to be sure. The diff sits perfectly level on a flat surface with the newer brackets, but the top mounting surface slopes forward visibly about 5 - 7 degrees. I know that the control arms were parallel to the ground before, so I may end up having to restore the old brackets.

No idea why the photo is rotated 90 degrees.

EDIT - The shiny area on the case just inboard of the caliper mounting bracket is one of the spots that I had to massage with the Dremel tool to create clearance for the caliper mounting bolts.

legenmetals · #7 (**permalink**) 03-25-2018, 09:23 PM

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Early side brackets mounted to the XJS diff.

Top picture showing the misalignment at the crossmember.

legenmetals · #8 (**permalink**) 03-25-2018, 09:35 PM

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The brackets in this picture are the early brackets!

Buzz · #9 (**permalink**) 03-26-2018, 05:01 AM

I just looked at one of the brackets from the series 1 diff that was originally on the car and the casting number is C20480P. They look identical to the newer brackets that are now bolted on, but the numbers are not legible enough under the fresh paint. The ends of my fulcrum shafts don't go into any holes in the frame crossmember, but I definitely do not want any vertical misalignment issues with my LCA's.

Not my thread, but I'm paying close attention. Thanks again for all of the help and info posted here.

joyridin' · #10 (**permalink**) 03-26-2018, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz

I just looked at one of the brackets from the series 1 diff that was originally on the car and the casting number is C20480P. They look identical to the newer brackets that are now bolted on, but the numbers are not legible enough under the fresh paint. The ends of my fulcrum shafts don't go into any holes in the frame crossmember, but I definitely do not want any vertical misalignment issues with my LCA's.

Not my thread, but I'm paying close attention. Thanks again for all of the help and info posted here.

The casting part number could be the same, but the item itself could have had a different part number. The difference would have been the mounting bolt locations. Do they match?

Buzz · #11 (**permalink**) 03-26-2018, 06:38 AM

Once I take them off of the case I will match them up and see if all of the holes align. I'm curious to see if there's a difference. I haven't measured yet, but the top mounting surface of the series 2 case appears to have slightly less of a slope angle, so no surprise if the brackets turn out to be different.

strictlypersonl · #12 (**permalink**) 03-26-2018, 08:25 AM

I can't be sure from the picture, but it looks like the XJ sedan brackets are different from the XKE and XJS series. I'm pretty sure that Contemporary use the XJ variation. Not sure about Arntz.
The file is located here:
http://www.erareplicas.com/427man/rs...bracket_XJ.pdf

joyridin' · #13 (**permalink**) 03-26-2018, 12:56 PM

You can always buy new ones....gulp!

https://www.bighealey.co.uk/jaguar-s...cradle-jrax320

Buzz · #14 (**permalink**) 03-30-2018, 09:54 AM

I haven't had a chance to remove the inner fulcrum brackets from my case yet, but I stumbled across this discussion that may (or may not) shed some light.
Rear inner fulcrum shaft mounts. - Page 2 - The 'E' Type Forum

Jim Coleman · #15 (**permalink**) 03-30-2018, 01:23 PM

Buzz,

I took the fulcrum brackets off, and the shafts are the same length, so I have another problem somewhere.

Today I mounted the stripped rear end chunk with the top bolts to the frame so I could check the brackets that I welded up the holes and redrilled.

When I tried to slide the bare fulcrum shafts through the brackets and into the Arntz frame noticed they were off a little.

So, I redrilled them again and welded up the ones I repaired and now the fulcrum shafts slide in easily into the Arntz frame. I did have to grind some off the flat side of the mounting points on the brackets on the RH side, and shim up the flats a little on the LH side.

After I get this wishbones installed on the fulcrum shafts and install the shafts into the frame I'll know more about what happening.

At least I will now know that the fulcrum brackets are mounted correctly.

Thanks,

Jim

joyridin' · #16 (**permalink**) 03-30-2018, 02:23 PM

If I recall, the mounting holes on one side of the differential are about 1/4" further back than the other side. The holes in the brackets are identical so they can be used on either side. I had to add a spacer on the passenger side of the car to make the mounting equal since the frame is the same all the way across.

Buzz · #17 (**permalink**) 03-30-2018, 02:43 PM

Well - thank God for this thread! I just removed the newer brackets from the differential and lined them up with the older ones that were on the car. Both sets are marked C20480F, but the holes do not line up! In fact they are way different. Had I not read this thread and went ahead with the newer brackets just because they were prettier and looked identical, my lower arm fulcrums would have been tilted, causing my suspension travel to be diagonal instead of vertical.

Glad you got things sorted out, Jim; and glad you caused me to double-check my brackets!