Tragic Accident

[Selo]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

Look where you want to go and steer in that direction.

You can look wherever you want but if you lift off the throttle your ass is headed to the ditch.

[Alfa02]

Gentleman, if I may add a little to this post, about what to do, and when to do it, in a emergency situation. I have raced since I was 15 1/2, Road racing, Pro-Rallye, and I'm a two-time national Champion in Autocrossing (In Auto-X, SMOOTH is FAST). I'm now 63yo, and learned a couple thing's that got me to this age safely. NEVER, NEVER, do anything quickly, that only adds to your car's 'confusion', loading and unloading the suspension, wheel correction (Yes, always steer into the skid), braking (Never lock up the brakes, You will lose your steering ability). Any time you change something quickly, like your minds, it confuses you, or you make mistakes, well your doing the same thing to your car. Trust me boy's in these incident's you will have the time you need. Don't panic ! If this help's one of my Cobra Brother this post was worth it. If you need any other questions answered about this subject just Pm me, I'm here for you. Cheers Tom.

[t walgamuth]

As an autocrosser I am not tempted to take my Cobra to the limits on the street. Too dangerous....

[RUFdriver]

Some sage advice in some of the previous posts, never do abrupt changes on the track or other high performance driving, driving dynamics 101. I’ve done all of the Porsche racing schools and qualified for SCCA racing license , the worst thing you can do in a 911 is lift in a turn, the old saying “ keep your finger in the flame” applies. Not sure if that is what happened here. There was an unconfirmed report on Texas Cobra Club Facebook page that a mechanic was driving the car and a driveshaft let loose. If that’s indeed what happened then we are dealing with catastrophic mechanical failure .

[Kit Coyle]

I flew in a Navy Fighter Squadron and each and every incident and accident was
dissected in detail at mandatory daily AOMs [all officers meetings]. This was an
excellent tool and "heads up." Knowing more about this and other Cobra
related accidents would be helpful. Previous posts are great for loss of control
mitigation techniques which are useful if you have paved room to apply them.
That is a big IF on the street. Over cook a corner there, get a rear wheel
off the pavement, and you are along for the ride in most cases.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Kit Coyle

I flew in a Navy Fighter Squadron and each and every incident and accident was dissected in detail...

Yeah, but you never got sued for sliding your plane in to a cloud while showing off for your buddy and then your insurance carrier withholds coverage because you said something extra-dumb on the internet.

[Morris]

It's easy to comment on all of the things that should have been done.....
My concern is that many folks build these vehicles without proper knowledge of Safety, or Protection with these type of Cars. They thing they can just put a kit of some sort together and then the have a car they can act like a kid again. It does bring back memories of driving a fast car....But it must be Safely accompolished in the build process.... everything on a car has to be thought out why and how it is being used....and is it strong enough to handle the situation it will be put in. Below shows you what a Cobra Frame looks like.



Very weak and hardly nothing to reinforce the or protect the occupants in the vehicle.



This is why many people are hurt in any mishap with a Cobra.
Their is just no protection for the occupants.

[Morris]

I'm not surprised when I see someone has a simple accident and they get major injuries. with Fiberglass or Aluminum covering this type of chassis, you can bet on a injury if a accident happens.

That was why we completely disassembed KMP259 when I got it.... After many years Racing at high speed and seeing some bad accidents, we decided to change and build KMP259 for a Track ...but more importantly make it safe and add protection to the occupants.

Here's some of the ways that we approached re-enforcing the Chassis, we started with the door bars...and worked them into the floor of the chassis.



Now look at the floor and the re-enforcement we put into the structure under the seats.



The bottom of the doors wrap around to the suspension pick-up points ....then we ran tubing down the bottom of the doors to the main hoop under the dash.



Then we re-enforced the main hoop both on the sides as well as the Petty Bar.



Then we ran bigger tubes from the Dash hoop down to the Shock towers and accross the shock towers....in addition we added cross bars to the main chassis

[patrickt]

I'll only add one thing, and I won't harp on it. If you can lean your head back and touch it to your unpadded roll bar then that's probably the greatest danger you face. It was just a few years ago that we had a thread on here where the guy was "demonstrating" his Cobra in the country club parking lot and slid it in to the curb. He died from BFT to the head... in the country club parking lot of all places.

[Gaz64]

Yes, and that's why it is a called a head restraint, but used by some as a headrest.

Even my superkart had a head restraint as part of the custom seat.

I won't travel in a car without a head restraint.

Gary

[Morris]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I'll only add one thing, and I won't harp on it. If you can lean your head back and touch it to your unpadded roll bar then that's probably the greatest danger you face.:

The rules for SCCA & Trans AM.....require a 36” square pad behind the drivers helmet.....when I Raced.....much like this on KMP259


h


You can see the head rest pad that is 4” thick....

[120mm]

Originally Posted by Morris

It's easy to comment on all of the things that should have been done.....
My concern is that many folks build these vehicles without proper knowledge of Safety, or Protection with these type of Cars. They thing they can just put a kit of some sort together and then the have a car they can act like a kid again. It does bring back memories of driving a fast car....But it must be Safely accompolished in the build process.... everything on a car has to be thought out why and how it is being used....and is it strong enough to handle the situation it will be put in. Below shows you what a Cobra Frame looks like.

Very weak and hardly nothing to reinforce the or protect the occupants in the vehicle.

This is why many people are hurt in any mishap with a Cobra.
Their is just no protection for the occupants.

And this is precisely why I am attracted to the Shelby Cobra.

I think America's fetish with safety detracts from a very foundational flavor of life.

The Shelby Cobra is an overpowered motorcycle on four wheels.

So what?

It forces you to work to stay alive. Kind of like our ancestors used to do. Which is also probably why so many people are dissatisfied with their pampered, protected lives. That cave man "gene" to survive is simply not being accessed any more.

I know I'm taking my sweet time getting mine, but I will have one, and when I do, I will approach the complexity and difficulty of driving a Cobra to its very limit, safely, with a passion. Knowing perfectly well that it can kill me.

This is why I read everything I can find about Cobras, and especially about the accidents.

[novasscnc]

Very sad, but the danger is what makes them fun, you have to respect them

[Selo]

Someone in this thread said there was speculation that the accident was caused by mechanical failure. Given the fact that these cars are built by individuals, rather than a fully inspected and authorized factory, how much does build quality weigh on your mind? My car should arrive tomorrow - I'd like to think I did my homework, but if I ever drive it hard or take it to the track, you can be darn sure I'll be praying my builder didn't skip any bolts or washers.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Selo

...how much does build quality weigh on your mind? My car should arrive tomorrow - I'd like to think I did my homework, but if I ever drive it hard or take it to the track, you can be darn sure I'll be praying my builder didn't skip any bolts or washers.

Quality components, and adherence to just basic good-mechanics, is pretty important. You don't have to be tracking the car, or even running her hard, to get in to a serious accident if you have a mechanical failure. Fortunately, these cars are really easy to inspect and, if you know what you're looking for, you can almost guess what you're likely to find in places you can't inspect. For example, if your fasteners on the drive shaft, half-shafts, and the like, are not proper grade, then there's a pretty good chance that when you peek inside the fork hole at your pressure plate you're probably not going to find ARP shouldered PP bolts. And if you see regular bolts there, then there's a strong chance the flywheel bolts have them too. On the other hand, if you see beautiful AN bolts, Grade 8 fasteners, castellated nuts with cotter pins, and safety wire then you can start feeling a little easier. Also, these cars rarely give out on you without telegraphing the problem before hand. Now, that signal could be a vibration, a noise, a smell, or just something that "feels" different. And, of course, the first time you get on her "really hard" you should be out in the middle of a big paved lot where there is absolutely nothing to hit, even if you tried. Don't rush things, these cars have a steep learning curve and the curve stops when you hit the tree.

[120mm]

Originally Posted by Selo

Someone in this thread said there was speculation that the accident was caused by mechanical failure. Given the fact that these cars are built by individuals, rather than a fully inspected and authorized factory, how much does build quality weigh on your mind? My car should arrive tomorrow - I'd like to think I did my homework, but if I ever drive it hard or take it to the track, you can be darn sure I'll be praying my builder didn't skip any bolts or washers.

Yeah, I am not big on trusting another mechanic's work, sight unseen. But I'm a aircraft mechanic and was brought up in the tradition of cross-check.

IMO, you need to select a good mechanic now, and arrange an initial condition inspection and a continuing maintenance plan, with a written out checklist.

[Selo]

Originally Posted by 120mm

Yeah, I am not big on trusting another mechanic's work, sight unseen. But I'm a aircraft mechanic and was brought up in the tradition of cross-check.

IMO, you need to select a good mechanic now, and arrange an initial condition inspection and a continuing maintenance plan, with a written out checklist.

Good plan.......in addition to head restraints.
lots of little, misc questions with new car: it needs better headlights. What are the options for headlight replacement? Are shift knobs interchangeable?
With no power steering is it normal for it to tramline a fair bit? Normal for a bit of chatter in the steering wheel when I go over a rough patch? Normal for a fair amount of gas smell in garage with 302/EZ Fast1 set-up? (Seems to be running well.)

[Selo]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Quality components, and adherence to just basic good-mechanics, is pretty important. You don't have to be tracking the car, or even running her hard, to get in to a serious accident if you have a mechanical failure. Fortunately, these cars are really easy to inspect and, if you know what you're looking for, you can almost guess what you're likely to find in places you can't inspect. For example, if your fasteners on the drive shaft, half-shafts, and the like, are not proper grade, then there's a pretty good chance that when you peek inside the fork hole at your pressure plate you're probably not going to find ARP shouldered PP bolts. And if you see regular bolts there, then there's a strong chance the flywheel bolts have them too. On the other hand, if you see beautiful AN bolts, Grade 8 fasteners, castellated nuts with cotter pins, and safety wire then you can start feeling a little easier. Also, these cars rarely give out on you without telegraphing the problem before hand. Now, that signal could be a vibration, a noise, a smell, or just something that "feels" different. And, of course, the first time you get on her "really hard" you should be out in the middle of a big paved lot where there is absolutely nothing to hit, even if you tried. Don't rush things, these cars have a steep learning curve and the curve stops when you hit the tree.

This is great info, it's just waaaay over my head. I've changed some wheels in my day, oil once or twice, and done a fair amount of clean-up and detailing. But that's it! I've spent my adult life working on eyeballs, and I've done some performance driving schools, but I think I m going to be better off hiring a mechanic to make sure my car is sound.

[120mm]

Originally Posted by Selo

Good plan.......in addition to head restraints.
lots of little, misc questions with new car: it needs better headlights. What are the options for headlight replacement? Are shift knobs interchangeable?
With no power steering is it normal for it to tramline a fair bit? Normal for a bit of chatter in the steering wheel when I go over a rough patch? Normal for a fair amount of gas smell in garage with 302/EZ Fast1 set-up? (Seems to be running well.)

Better headlights should be easy; Halogen projectors, LEDs and HIDs are common.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wvpBZCot0s

Tramlining: Are you running bias ply tires? If so, yes. If not, have the alignment checked by a professional. Actually, have the alignment checked anyway. It's cheap insurance.

I don't think chatter in steering is normal. Again, professional.

On the subject of having a mechanic checking out your car, it needs to be the right guy, with experience working with modified/race cars, imo. Your local SCCA, Vintage Racing Association or whomever races cars in your area will know who to go to and who to avoid.

BTW, it is normal for a new anything to need a mechanic to check it out on acceptance and correct minor deficiencies.

[120mm]

Originally Posted by Selo

This is great info, it's just waaaay over my head. I've changed some wheels in my day, oil once or twice, and done a fair amount of clean-up and detailing. But that's it! I've spent my adult life working on eyeballs, and I've done some performance driving schools, but I think I m going to be better off hiring a mechanic to make sure my car is sound.

You have a great attitude, though.

Your humility will get you a long way, imo.

Having said that, you've obviously worked in a detail oriented profession, so I bet you catch on quickly. Just take the principles you've learned in your professional life and apply them to this.