Ford v Ferrari races into theaters on Nov. 15.

[1795]

After watching the movie I am contemplating running the HSR Historic 24 Hour race at Daytona next year. They break it up into run groups and you actually only race 4 one hour sessions split up about every 4 hours. So you do get at least one night time session. I will have to start putting together a race crew.

[Igofastr]

Originally Posted by Mike I

Why would you suggest RCR is to blame? That's a ridiculous thing to say. If you want to speculate on who's to blame, start with the producer and the studio, they likely didn't want to pony up for one last accurate replica. No one replicates the J car, so it would have been a one-off custom build for about 10 seconds of film. I understand the business decision, but it was disappointing they didn't take it across the finish line.

I spoke with one of the stunt drivers Friday (Tony Hunt). He said that they used a mixture of cars from Superformance and RCR. He ended up buying the Superformance 289 slabside "hero car" (#98, one of three, actually, but the one used for driving in the movie).

I was disappointed at the treatment of Phil Remington. He was a genius who made important contributions, but was made to look like an old dweeb. I know this wasn't the "Phil Remington" movie, but they didn't have to do that.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Gaz64

There was one part where Miles talked about adjusting the Holley secondaries, and yet the car has Webers.

Gary

I noticed that as well. The 427 cars, of course, used Holley carbs. Did the Mark I 289 GT40s use Webers?

[Mike I]

Originally Posted by 1795

After watching the movie I am contemplating running the HSR Historic 24 Hour race at Daytona next year. They break it up into run groups and you actually only race 4 one hour sessions split up about every 4 hours. So you do get at least one night time session. I will have to start putting together a race crew.

HSR was at Daytona last week (11/13-11/17). I was at the track spectating Friday morning (11/15), then went to see the movie Friday evening...it was an overall good day. Let me know if you'd like some local crew support if you register for the 24hr race.

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by Igofastr

... I was disappointed at the treatment of Phil Remington. He was a genius who made important contributions, but was made to look like an old dweeb. I know this wasn't the "Phil Remington" movie, but they didn't have to do that.

As was I, Ron.

Phil Remington was the genius that made it happen for all the cars, 289, USRRC, 427, Daytona coupe and of course the GT40. The Shelby story would have been very different without Remington. His contributions are right up there with the very best at Shelby American — in a word the man was simply, brilliant!

Perhaps Shelby's greatest strength was recognizing raw talent, seducing it to play in his sand box and then motivating some of the most gifted people the sport has ever seen to work together as the unprecedented machine that was Shelby American.

There is so much more to be told about the Shelby years and certainly enough for many more movies.


Ed

[1795]

Originally Posted by Mike I

HSR was at Daytona last week (11/13-11/17). I was at the track spectating Friday morning (11/15), then went to see the movie Friday evening...it was an overall good day. Let me know if you'd like some local crew support if you register for the 24hr race.

Mike,

Sounds like a good day. Thanks for the offer regarding crewing. I will keep you in mind. Just contacted HSR to verify if my cobra would be eligible. Hopefully they say yes.

Jim

[RB60]

Originally Posted by Karl Bebout

After a great BBQ at a member's house in the afternoon, a final tally of 15 Cobras showed up at the last remaining drive in theater, in AZ, and had an excellent time with the movie. The audio is transmitted via FR and many people brought radios so the sounds came through pretty well. We did really have to tough it out though: The temperature dove down to almost 70°.

Almost 70? I'd be dancing all the way out to my garage and going for a ride if it got up to 70 here in PA! I have to wait until May of next year

Sounds like you guys had a great time and enjoyed a great movie

[Alfa02]

After talking to a few club members that have been around in those day's (Myself, included). I leave these few words about the movie. In no way this was the True "Ken Miles" that was protrayed on the screen And I am very disappointed in that. I could go on, but no sense to (or will change the movie). it's Hollywood, nuff said. Unhappy but Cheers anyway, TommyRot, or plain ol'Tom.

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by Alfa02

In no way this was the True "Ken Miles" that was protrayed on the screen

I wouldn't have thought he was like that either.

That acting was a disappointment for me, otherwise great movie.

Gary

[Alfa02]

Maybe I should add a little more to the way Hollywood portrayed of "Our Ken" Granted I only spend 3-days with the 'Gentleman' as the correct way to describe this proper, soft spoken, British gentleman (Aka. Teddy Tea-Bagger). I was there, on a race weekend, with the normal, mech. swearing, racing around getting parts, etc. But every afternoon (Tea Time) we all sat and had tea, with Ken, now I may have had more Honey, sugar, then the rest but I was only 8yo , still no one there, watched they P's and Q's around me (I felt part of the crew). Ken Miles was always a Gentleman, not this guy on the "Big Screen. Ok I've said my peace, now back to the movie. Cheers Boy's, TommyRot.

[Karl Bebout]

TommyRot, feel better now?

It's a Hollywood creation, a movie, never touted as a true, accurate, narrative.

[Alfa02]

Karlos, You know me I just can't keep my mouth shut EVEN after we talked !!!! Sorry Boy's if this isn't what anyone wanted to hear. And yes, I do feel better Side note: Ken Miles's R-2 Shingle, and his first MG race car, live here in the PNW at a friends Collection, along side a One of One AC Aceca that was "Cobraized" in the early 70's. Cheers TommyRot

[t walgamuth]

I believe the early 289 GT 40s used four webers.

[snakeeyes]

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I believe the early 289 GT 40s used four webers.

I’m sitting in an airport with no access to any books I have at home, but I think it’s accurate to say that the MkI (small block) cars were Weber-equipped, the MkII (427) cars had a single four barrel Holley, the MkIIB (1967) cars had dual 4-barrel Holleys, the MkIV (427) cars reverted to a single Holley, and the ‘68-‘69 Gulf cars had Webers on a 302.

[Igofastr]

I have copies of the engineering drawings. And, yes, the small block GT40s were equipped with Webers.

[t walgamuth]

I have access to my brain which was much younger when the cars came out. ...pictures and such from magazines.

Don't ask me what i came into the room to get though.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Alfa02

Maybe I should add a little more to the way Hollywood portrayed of "Our Ken" Granted I only spend 3-days with the 'Gentleman' as the correct way to describe this proper, soft spoken, British gentleman (Aka. Teddy Tea-Bagger). I was there, on a race weekend, with the normal, mech. swearing, racing around getting parts, etc. But every afternoon (Tea Time) we all sat and had tea, with Ken, now I may have had more Honey, sugar, then the rest but I was only 8yo , still no one there, watched they P's and Q's around me (I felt part of the crew). Ken Miles was always a Gentleman, not this guy on the "Big Screen.

WOW !!! What an unbelievable memory !! You're very lucky !!!

Originally Posted by Igofastr

I was disappointed at the treatment of Phil Remington. He was a genius who made important contributions, but was made to look like an old dweeb. I know this wasn't the "Phil Remington" movie, but they didn't have to do that.

I agree. Maybe add one or 2 scenes with phil having conversations about making modifications, as well as having more significant contributions to the conversations.

Also, I believe it was Shelby himself that came up with the idea of the 3 car finish, to rub it ferrari's face, and the Ford management agreed, not realizing the consequences.

Yeah, I think the movie portrayed Beebee, Ford management , as somewhat "bad", and I'm not sure if Ford themselves enjoyed their portrayal !!!

And the final scene with Miles crashing I thought was OK, even though the car was not correct. It gets the point across.

I think I would have liked a scene the first time Shelby and Miles met.

Yeah, there were a lot of incorrect details, but overall, I enjoyed it a lot. Hollywood always changes things to bring more drama to the story, to keep the audience interested.

I will be getting it on DVD.

[snakeeyes]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Also, I believe it was Shelby himself that came up with the idea of the 3 car finish, to rub it ferrari's face, and the Ford management agreed, not realizing the consequences.

Leo Levine’s book “Ford: The Dust and the Glory” has been considered kind of the Bible of Ford’s racing history since it first published in 1968. Levine describes what happened like this:

“With approximately two hours left and the cars running 1-2-3, Beebe, Frey, Passino, Cowley and Shelby examined the possibilities for the finish. The Bucknum-Hutcherson car presented no problem, as it was a dozen laps behind. But the car driven by Miles and Hulme, and that shared by McLaren and Amon, were running almost in each other’s tire tracks. The Ford officials were interested in their car winning, not in any special pair of drivers. The cars were the primary thing, and they came before any other considerations. There were three choices:

Let them race, with the winner determined in that manner.
Predetermine the winner and instruct the drivers accordingly.
Arrange a tie.

The first alternative was thrown out immediately. At this point, while the cars were still droning around the circuit, Reiber came up with a message: 'Leo, the officials say if you want to do it, they can arrange a tie and they will cooperate with you.'

...

There had never been a dead heat in the history of the race, and to someone interested in publicity it was the ideal solution. Miles and McLaren, both of whom were getting ready to drive the final trick, were called over and informed of the decision.

Neither liked it. Both wanted to race, but Beebe would have none of that. With a multimillion-dollar program on the brink of success, he would not take a chance on one of them going off of the road in the rain, or on one of them blowing an already tired engine. They were given the procedure, they got in the cars and they took off. Soon after they departed Reiber came back.

'Leo, the officials now say a tie isn’t possible.'

[Explanation by Levine about how McLaren started farther back so technically covered more distance and would be the race-winner in a "dead heat"]
...
'Reiber’s news came as a shock. 'Oh my God, that’s not what we wanted at all', Beebe said. 'Is there any basis for appealing that?' There was none...'

[Levine goes on to describe how Beebe had had to censure Miles and Gurney for racing the previous night after the Ferraris had dropped out, how he considered bringing both Miles and McLaren back in to tell them the dead heat idea was off, but how he remained concerned that they would take each other out if he did. He also considered bringing them back in and instructing them as to who would win; Levine quotes Beebe as saying:]

'If you let Miles win, you were giving it to a guy who had given you a hard time. If you let McLaren win, you would take it away from a guy who had earned it over the years...Anyone can question the judgment, but no one can say it was not a consciously arrived-at decision—and on grounds we considered valid and just. To have Ken win would have been more expedient and more popular. But the extent to which McLaren and Amon had played exactly according to our rules militated against Miles. The result was not necessarily even popular with me.'

Two years later Passino was more philosophical about it. 'If we had realized the whole world would take us on over it,' he said, 'we probably would have let Miles win.'”

Leo Levine, “Ford: The Dust and the Glory”, The MacMillan Company, copyright 1968.

[t walgamuth]

It was a magical time in retrospect. I am sure it was not all fun and games back then even though Shelby might have made it look that way.

[twobjshelbys]

I went to see it today. Saw it in an "XD" theater which has a curved screen and super sound. Not quite iMax but I can't see out of both eyes to make iMax worth it.


I thought the movie was well told. There was no way to condense the whole "Go Like Hell" (which made an appearance in the movie) into 2-3 hours and I'm glad the producers chose this part of the back story. Miles was a class act. There was plenty of Hollywood License though. Did Shelby really snatch stop watches from and toss the lug nut in the Ferrari pit?


Over the years almost all of the names "in the background" have appeared at the annual Shelby American Collection museum fundraiser party, some of them every year that I can remember. They always have a session where the old crew stands up and tells war stories. It's a great time to see and get a chance to visit with the greats.


Edit: I'll put this as #3 in my list of my favorite race movies. "Le Mans" and "Grand Prix" hold a tie for first place because of their cinemetography. Both had entertainment-value romance based backstories to glue the racing stories together. Both used real-life GT40s as camera cars to film the real-life at speed action. "Ford V Ferrari" get a nod for the better back story, since it is based on real life events and people, and gets an extra nod for having met a fair number of them.