2020 Shelby GT 500 Hp - Torque published

[Buzz]

and...?

If I pack enough lead (and dumplings) into the trunk and passenger seat of a Cobra, I could probably get it up close to 5000lbs as well. Irrelevant when discussing listed curb weights.

[Dumpling]

Originally Posted by Buzz

and...?

If I pack enough lead (and dumplings) into the trunk and passenger seat of a Cobra, I could probably get it up close to 5000lbs as well. Irrelevant when discussing listed curb weights.

I don't read that as irrelevant. Why would anyone pack unnecessary weight into a car??

The relevant point is that, ready to drive, the Cobra weighs what? 1,000, 1,500, 2,000 lbs less, than this wannabe SUV?

The REAL question is why does the Ford GT cost $500K, with limited production? Is Ford just ripping off customers, who they've specially vetted as 'true blue', so that they won't whine about the fleecing they're being given?

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by Dumpling

The relevant point is that, ready to drive, the Cobra weighs what? 1,000, 1,500, 2,000 lbs less, than this wannabe SUV?

No wonder. Flimsy alloy body, basic ladder frame etc. etc. etc. vs Modern sports GT with all modern safety, comfort and convenience features. Its not rocket science. And in spite of it all, the big fat heavy Stingray is still quicker and faster on any road or track. Ditto for the 2020 GT350 and GT500.

Originally Posted by Dumpling

Is Ford just ripping off customers, who they've specially vetted as 'true blue',

I see what you did there!! Very clever!

[Cobra #3170]

Originally Posted by Dumpling

I don't read that as irrelevant. Why would anyone pack unnecessary weight into a car??

The relevant point is that, ready to drive, the Cobra weighs what? 1,000, 1,500, 2,000 lbs less, than this wannabe SUV?

The REAL question is why does the Ford GT cost $500K, with limited production? Is Ford just ripping off customers, who they've specially vetted as 'true blue', so that they won't whine about the fleecing they're being given?

The Ford GT has excellent resale value so I doubt that any customers will be complaining. They are making about (1300) so they are fairly rare, there were around (4000) 2005 - 2006 models and they are all well over original invoice now.
Performance wise they were engineered for the GTLM class where power is restricted to around 500. A turbo V6 was the best choice in terms of fuel efficiency, and aerodynamic packaging. The road car is just a converted race car so it has limited horsepower in street trim and as a result not as fast as a number of current cars like Viper ACR, ZRI, Porsche GT2 RS, McLaren 720S
and several Ferrari's. At the same power level it would most likely beat them all because of aerodynamics and suspension design. The GT has had a number of adjustments to the BOP formula to penalize it's performance since winning Le Mans in 2016 which illustrates its efficiency. I have owned three Corvettes and one Viper and lost lots of money on all of them. I did well on my 2005 GT and am not worried about the 2018 being a loser either.
The one thing I really like is you do not see many of them with only 1300 in the world, kinda like Cobra's in the 1960's.

[undy]

3366 is the weight of the C8...

[DanEC]

I read 3600 for the new Corvette and about 80 lbs more than a comparable C7. Dimensionally it is bigger - especially in length - but I think the proportions are very good. Main thing I see is that the C8 is going to be Ford Dealership salesman's biggest nightmare with introduction of the new Shelby GT500. Instead of being able to hike the list price up with huge ADMs, customers will just say "screw that" - I'll take a hike and go get a new C8. And truthfully - couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of sales people.

[Buzz]

Thanks Undy - that's even better!

EDIT - Correct Dan - 3366 dry and 3600 curb

[Buzz]

Slightly back on topic - when evaluating what the modern performance cars bring to the table compared to old school muscle - with the 427 Cobra as the benchmark - it's not just about power/weight ratio. That is more of a factor when comparing the 60's bruisers against each other, and to a lesser extent among the modern cars. Technology, electronics, layout and design all need to be factored into the mix. I'll always love the purity of the Cobra, but that doesn't stop me from acknowledging and appreciating the incredible cars they're rolling out today. Yes - they're heavier, but they're also faster, safer, more comfortable, handle better and stop better than anything from the 60's.
To illustrate:

'66 COBRA 427---2280LBS---HP/TQ 485/460---0-60 4.5---TOP SPEED 165
'67 GT350---------3241LBS---HP/TQ 306/329---0-60 7.0---TOP SPEED 140

'20 GT500-------*3950LBS--HP/TQ 760/625----0-60 3.5*---TOP SPEED N/A
'17 FGT-----------3047LBS---HP/TQ 647/550----0-60 2.9----TOP SPEED 216
'18 ZR1-----------3669LBS---HP/TQ 755/715----0-60 2.8----TOP SPEED 210
'20 STINGRAY-- 3600LBS----HP/TQ 495/470---0-60 2.9*---TOP SPEED 200*

*est.

[olddog]

Interesting numbers Buzz.

I like to point out those 1960's numbers were on 1960's tires and the factory put crappy tires on them to boot. Put the same tires on the 66 Cobra that are on the 2020 Stingray and then see what the Cobra's 0-60 time is.

Not much we can do about the aerodynamics, though.

[Buzz]

You're absolutely right! Tire technology is one of the factors that has advanced performance as the years rolled on.

[DanEC]

And fuel injection and computer engine management systems.

[dacobb]

Originally Posted by Dumpling

That new Vette is the next one to annoy everyone to death. It'll come with the ability to blip the throttle without even the effort of pressing down on a clutch pedal, just pull back the two paddles on the steering wheel simultaneously...the steering wheel with a flat, belly-clearing bottom. There's a 'loud' optional exhaust system available.

What kind of 'sports car' weighs 4,000+ pounds and carries golf bags at the furthest point from its center of gravity?

A damn good one, I'd say.

[undy]

FWIW, here's the C8 I have on pre-order...

[Buzz]

Nice!! Z51 or no? Isn't it great to see Mustangs, Camaros, Mopars and Corvettes competing for buyers in real time horsepower and performance wars again?

EDIT - I see in the lounge thread you did say it will have the Z51 package. I also just posted a new Z06 / ZR1 concept render in that thread. Semi reliable rumours about an 850HP version of the Cadillac twin turbo V8 ("technically" a different engine) being assembled at the bowling green plant for the halo model Vette.

[Buzz]

Only thing missing now (as well as a Pontiac Trans Am and a Buick GS ) is a modern day Cobra to join the fray - A minimalist, stripped down, lightweight bruiser to set the automotive world on fire again. With Ford heavily invested in the GT as it's halo car and the challenges of certifying that kind of beast chances are slim though. Too bad.

[Buzz]

2022 Shelby Cobra concept I rendered a while back. Pure roadster - no roof, sub 3000lbs.

[Dumpling]

The auto world is returning to electric power.

Next up is the Porsche Taycan, which is due in 2020 and already has deposits for more units than the Vette's entire hoped-for sales.

AWD, 600+ HP, and instant-on 500 lb/ft of torque. Backseat, real trunks, front and back. Free 'gas' (charging) for the first 3 years...

And it's just one of many to come from many manufacturers.

You can register a Cobra, and most Corvettes, as antique vehicles in most states.

Porsche has secured 30,000 deposits for the Taycan more than a month before the German automaker will unveil the all-electric sports cars, numbers that suggest there’s enough demand to support the company’s plans to produce 40,000 units in its first year.

[Buzz]

I'm all for the development of electric vehicles and totally sold on the massive, linear torque. All of the current paradigms constraining vehicle design and layout will be tossed out the window once EV's become more mainstream. We'll soon see a completely new era of automotive innovation and performance will be taken to a whole new level.

[olddog]

From the perspective of an old dog that grew up in the tail end of the muscle car era, where a factory stock car was frowned on, a modified car that was done by writing a check commanded little respect, and the guy who built his own engine was king, an electric motor sports car is about as sterile and fun as going to an artificial insemination clinic to get your wife pregnant.

At least an engine sounds good. Might as well go to an amusement park, if you want to hear electric motors hum.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by olddog

From the perspective of an old dog that grew up in the tail end of the muscle car era, where a factory stock car was frowned on, a modified car that was done by writing a check commanded little respect, and the guy who built his own engine was king, an electric motor sports car is about as sterile and fun as going to an artificial insemination clinic to get your wife pregnant.

If indulging in one of life's most sublime pleasures is solely viewed as a means to "get your wife pregnant", then it's difficult for us to relate on common ground. That's sort of like buying a sports car for the singular purpose of picking up the mail.

Originally Posted by olddog

At least an engine sounds good. Might as well go to an amusement park, if you want to hear electric motors hum.

I saw some videos of a Tesla owner who races against some seriously fast ICE cars and kicks royal butt. They do the noisy, smoky burnout thing and then the Tesla walks away from them in relatively quiet fashion. In one of them he gives a hard acceleration ride to a guy who he just trounced along with the dude's son. Their reaction to the brutal pull of the Tesla says it all. Anything but amusement park sterile!
PS: I do get your point of view. It's just that I'm also open to new (and maybe one day better) ways of accomplishing the same thing.