New Guy Looking For Advice

[ford lover]

My name is Dennis and I have admired Cobras for years. I think I am ready to move forward. Please help me decide whether to buy or build. Any and all types of advice are welcomed.

[snakeeyes]

Welcome, Dennis. There are so many variables that it's hard to suggest where to start with your question. Things like price range, mechanical aptitude, level of patience, etc. all factor in. There is a vast range of kits out there with starting prices in the low five digits to way into the six digits, but it depends not only on your wallet but how closely you want your car to track an original one, whether you plan to build a track-ready weapon or a weekend cruiser, whether you want 1960s-level sparsity or heated seats and a stereo, etc.

Since it looks like you're in Missouri, I would suggest you go to the Mid-America Cobra Club subforum here on Club Cobra and find out when their next gathering will be, then plan to attend. There's nothing like getting to look at a variety of cars in the flesh all at the same time and talking to the owners to help figure out what would work for you. With luck you might score a ride or two.

[twobjshelbys]

You posted this within another topic. Thanks for making a new topic from it. I'll post the link to your first post there and then repost my comments:

Link:
Where is everyone?

your first post and my reply. There are others that have also responded, read them at the link above.

My name is Dennis and this is my first post. A friend and I have been talking of a Cobra for some time now. We have debated buying verses building. We have to admit we have never driven or even sat in a Cobra before...so we are open to any and all advice. Please be kind. Everybody has to start somewhere.

My Response:

Kindness is not what you need. Brutal honesty is what you need. So I'll try to be brutally honest in a kind way.

Some people want to build a Cobra because they think the some-assembly-required like a Heathkit will save them money. It rarely does.

Buy it. There are tons of completed cars that have been sorted out. Find one you like and drive it. Then if the COBRA PASSION persists, and you still want to be a fabricator/manufacturer, feel free to build one. If you're into fabrication that's OK, but you don't want to put all that time and money into a project only to find the Cobra is not a match. They are powerful nasty smelling machines that want to kill you every time you get in it. It would be a shame to invest two years into a project only to find that combination doesn't agree with you.

Based on what I see here, I'd guess maybe 50% of the "kits" are actually completed.

Good luck.

I stick by all of what I said. But to summarize some of the finer points from others:

1. You should find a local car show that the Cobra owners frequent. If as you said you haven't even sat in a Cobra you need to start talking to owners in person about the cars. Car shows will also likely be attended by owners that cover a good many of the manufacturers so you can compare models.

2. Building a kit is a passion in its own right and since you haven't ever experienced a Cobra the general advice given to everyone is that you should buy an already sorted out car and drive it for a year or two. If you are still a Cobra fan and want the experience of manufacturing one, then go for building one yourself. On the other hand, if your primary motivation is building something, almost anything else will be better for you than tackling a Cobra as your first build.

Cobra kits end up in one of three states: 1. Builder/Owner in 7th heaven. 2. Kit languishes for years and is sold for pennies on the dollar. 3. Kit is finished and builder/owner figures out after the first front/rear exchange event and underwear cleaning that the Cobra was the wrong car. Understand them before tackling the project.

Anyway, read the other responses over there too.

Good luck.

[MKS427]

Price range? Authentic? Big Brakes/wheels? Street mild or wild? Track car? Autocross? Tall person?
Quick general info:
Classic, no longer in production, 6" longer wheelbase plus wider mostly in cockpit for larger people.
Superformance & Backdraft, both produced in South Africa, consistent quality build as they are complete painted rollers minus motor and transmission.
ERA, tend to be more correct to their original counterparts.
Factory Five, smaller cockpit than most. Quality varies low quality donor car builds to all new parts including suspension. If you are thinking a track car, check out their Challenge car. If you are going to track, the 3 link is recommended over the IRS, but you will want a full floating axle conversion to prevent pad knock back. An issue I am sorting out right now.

You should be able to buy a nice used Superformance, Backdraft, ERA, etc for the same or less as a new FFR complete kit of similar quality.

Hope this helps,
Mark

[twobjshelbys]

I'll elaborate on the build-vs-buy. Building a kit is a non-trivial task and involves much time and also many tools that you probably don't already own, most notably the task is much easier if you have a lift. Don't build a kit thinking it will save you money - it won't. And the amount of time it takes will likely be over 1 year, probably more than two years unless you dedicate serious time to it. It's tedious and you'll spend a lot of time running around. Then you have the expense and task of integrating the power train - engine/transmission/rear end. By the time you're done you're not even paying yourself minimum wage over just buying a medium grade car that is already completed. In the end many kits get neglected and people try to sell them here after years of neglect.

Then you run the risk after completing the car that "it's not for you". They are nasty noisy hard to operate vehicles that will kill you in a heartbeat if you're not experienced at driving a short wheel base high horsepower car.

If you are thinking of a Cobra as the solution to "I want to build something" and I've heard about Cobra kits, there are much easier cars to tackle as a first project.

Part of surveying the marketplace is by looking at cars at Cobra Country | The World's #1 Shopping Mall for Cobra Buyers & Sellers

[twobjshelbys]

You also don't say what your budget is... Cobras aren't cheap, but somewhere between 50-100K isn't uncommon, more for the superior brands. In a kit you should figure 20K or so for engine/trans and that's for an entry level configuration. You can try to find an old engine and rebuild it but that is a can of worms in its own right (read the many topics on this subject here.)

[olddog]

Why build a Cobra, until you know exactly what you want? Nothing will teach you more than looking at already built Cobras that are for sale. So even if you do not pull the trigger and buy a used Cobra, you should definitely give them a serious look.

As for buying a used verses building a new one, how many free hours do you have to actually build one? What skills do you have that makes you believe you can build one? They do not come as a box of parts already perfectly made and thought out. It is not a bunch of parts that just needs bolted together, with a superbly written assembly manual. Most people couldn't build one in a year if they have a job, and a life. It's more like 2, 3, 4 years. There are unfinished kits for sale from time to time that are 10, 15, 20 years old. Also depending on the manufacturer, you may be waiting a year to get the kit to start your build. After putting down a hefty deposit, you get to wait and pray the company doesn't go bankrupt before you get your kit. This has happened way too many times.

Buy a used one and you can drive it that day, having spent much less money (not to mention time) than had you built it yourself.

Look at it another way. Do you buy you daily driver car by looking on a lot until you find the right deal, or do you special (custom) order exactly what you want and wait for it to be built and shipped to you?

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by olddog

As for buying a used verses building a new one, how many free hours do you have to actually build one? What skills do you have that makes you believe you can build one? They do not come as a box of parts already perfectly made and thought out. It is not a bunch of parts that just needs bolted together, with a superbly written assembly manual. Most people couldn't build one in a year if they have a job, and a life. It's more like 2, 3, 4 years. There are unfinished kits for sale from time to time that are 10, 15, 20 years old. Also depending on the manufacturer, you may be waiting a year to get the kit to start your build. After putting down a hefty deposit, you get to wait and pray the company doesn't go bankrupt before you get your kit. This has happened way too many times.

I said the same thing, and it's not an accident... This is the truth.

And another missing part is that unless you have the tools in the equivalent of, or access to the tools in, a well equipped auto repair facility, you'll spend as much in tools to build the car as the kit. Or you'll take three days to do the equivalent that that expensive tool would do in a day...

[MKS427]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

In a kit you should figure 20K or so for engine/trans and that's for an entry level configuration.

20K for an entry level FE/trans. Add another 6-8 for higher end. Plus trimmings.
You can get a NICE 427 351W based Dart with trans, shipping, March pulleys, and all the trimmings including a header tank for about 20+K. You will also have to get large port headers to maximize the big heads, 1K+. Now if you want it to run smooth below 1800, you'll end up adding an EFI system, 2K+ with all the necessities.

[Wizzy]

Hello Everyone! I'm good friends with Dennis the OP and we are researching this endeavor together. Between the two of us I will probably be the first to jump in head first. To answer a few of your questions:
I am looking for a safe good looking cruiser on a budget. I'm not looking for a period correct rendition, track car or even a monster power plant.
I'm reading a lot of responses that a built car is the smart option. Digging through Facebook marketplace and Craigslist I have stumbled across turn key builds ranging from $20k-$100K+. What are some warning signs to steer clear of in an older turn key build? I will also add that Im 6'1". I used to own an MGB and loved the car (sit low in the seat with plenty of leg room). How does a standard wheel base cobra compare?

[1795]

I have an MGB and a cobra and the seating is similar. You probably want to be able to get the car on a lift and look at the underside to look for loose or worn parts and fluid leaks. I wold be more concerned about a car with less than 1,000 miles on it than a higher mileage vehicle. The higher milage one has had some time to be sorted out. Good luck in your search.

[MKS427]

[quote=Wizzy;1473205]Hello Everyone! Digging through Facebook marketplace and Craigslist I have stumbled across turn key builds ranging from $20k-$100K+.
/QUOTE]

Beware of scammers on Craigslist.
Check Bring a Trailer and Cobra Country

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Wizzy

Hello Everyone! I'm good friends with Dennis the OP and we are researching this endeavor together. Between the two of us I will probably be the first to jump in head first. To answer a few of your questions:
I am looking for a safe good looking cruiser on a budget. I'm not looking for a period correct rendition, track car or even a monster power plant.
I'm reading a lot of responses that a built car is the smart option. Digging through Facebook marketplace and Craigslist I have stumbled across turn key builds ranging from $20k-$100K+. What are some warning signs to steer clear of in an older turn key build? I will also add that Im 6'1". I used to own an MGB and loved the car (sit low in the seat with plenty of leg room). How does a standard wheel base cobra compare?

My advice after personal experience is that you SHALL sit in every car you are interested in. Don't do long distance stuff and if you do, visit that car before signing over the money. The reason is that the seating is different in every manufacturer, and even varies within manufacturer generations. So if you "try on" a Backdraft, you may find the steering wheel on a Superformance planted firmly in your lap. You do not get in a Cobra you put it on, wear it. Don't make the mistake of buying a size too small.

[olddog]

Realize who the top fiberglass manufacturers are (were) and which were the worst. ERA, Superformance, Backdraft, and a handfull that have come and gone are among the better quality. ERA well known for accuracy to the original.

There was a company called Streat Beast. The company was sold many times and had many names. They are one of the worst. I have seen one that a fellow must have spent a quarter million dollars of labor on. It was a very well done car. I would stay clear of them just because of the stigma attached to the brand, but this shows that it is who built the car more so than who sold the kit.

Factory Five Racing puts together a nice finishable kit. The early ones had the perky butt, but the new ones are much closer to original. In the early days they marketed that all you needed was a worn out junkyard Fox body Mustang. The manual even explaining how to use the gauges out of a Mustang. As a result there are some sorry examples out there where some fool believed the marketing hype and built a piece of crap. On the other hand, there are many FFR out there that the builders put all top quality new parts in the kit and built some very nice cars.

Other than the turnkey minus manufactures, all kits are subject to who built it and what parts were used. Was it Bevis and Butthead or a true millwright / mechanic that built the car? Believe me, a true idiot does not know he is an idiot. They can get you killed in an unsafe car. Even an intelligent, well meaning, person who is ignorant in some aspects of car building can get you killed.

Even in a turnkey minus, how many previous owners did what to the car? It doesn't take an arrogant idiot long to screw up a perfectly built car.

Last thing, if you have the money, get a Kirkham (aluminum body). In my opinion, they are a superior build to the originals and sell for much less than an original.

[t walgamuth]

I agree it is a good value to buy an assembled car since it is pretty easy to start such a project and a lot of work to finish it.

The fitment is important too. The cockpit is pretty tight. I had to put a spacer under my steering wheel to keep my knuckles off the edge of the cowl. I also had to adjust seat height and pedal placement to clear my shoes so I could press one pedal at a time.

[Dirty Harry]

If you're near the Midwest, why not try going to the London Cobra Show on June 27th and look at 150 or so cars from several manufacturers. Take the time to speak with the many manufacturers' sales reps and hear what they're proposing. At the show, you will find turnkey minus cars, total DIY cars, and even cars with "for sale" signs on them. For the price of a couple tanks of gas and a hotel room, you could do a lot of valuable research and even get a ride in a Cobra for a $10 donation to Cystic Fibrosis research. Just a thought.

[Karl Bebout]

FordLover Dennis, The London, OH Cobra show is an excellent idea and there is also a big gathering of various Cobras in San Marcos TX the first weekend in April. Lots of opportunities to touch, feel, talk Cobras. There's very few Cobra folks that won't be happy to talk about their cars and I'm sure you'd be able to get rides and maybe even a drive or two. My 2¢ worth.

[rads42]

When I was thinking about buying I posted on this site and gave my location and asked if anyone was willing to give me a ride/show me their car and I had 3 or 4 people take me up on it. It was really nice of them to offer their time and very helpful for me. I was 90% sure by that point I was going with ERA so I took a ride in a couple of them as well as a Kirkham. I'm guessing if you did the same thing you'd have a couple guys in your area that would be happy to step up.

[g8rnbft]

A turn key build for 20K is damn near impossible, unless by turn-key you mean a car you get in, turn the key, and drive away. That's not a true turn key.

You really need to give us a dollar figure that you are willing to spend and the installed options you require.

IRS, heater, top, windshield wipers, power steering, power brakes, fuel injection, pin drive wheels, car show paint, more than 270-300 hp - all are options.

[ERA 626]

When I fist started the homework process, I narrowed my search to CSX, Kirkham, Superformance and ERA.

At the time I could not afford a CSX or a Kirkham, so I was left the decision of ERA or Superformance. I did an un announced visit to ERAs shop and felt at home there. I went ERA and loved every moment of owning that car.

Now a little older and a little more money I was faced with the decision of Kirkham or CSX. I went CSX because I made a deal I could not refuse with Dembeste (CSX dealer in CA) Eventually I will most likley be in a Alloy Kirkham, in my opinion the best Cobra on the planet.