Denbeste CSX Montana title

[ERA 626]

just to be clear, is this a complete car from denbeste or a roller? Bill is a dealer, if its a roller its the same as buying a roller from ERA or some other replica? right?

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by ERA 626

just to be clear, is this a complete car from denbeste or a roller? Bill is a dealer, if its a roller its the same as buying a roller from ERA or some other replica? right?

If it's titled it's got to be a completed car with power train... It seems to be under control though.

[6TNCRZY]

My brother recently registered his ERA Cobra in California. The car was originally registered in New Jersey as a 1965 Cobra. When he registered in California, they registered it as a 1965 Cobra with the ERA VIN and only needed Highway Patrol inspection. I guess who you get at the DMV makes a difference too.

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

If it's titled it's got to be a completed car with power train... It seems to be under control though.

not true, I just got a brand new roller from Bill Denbeste with no drivetrain Tiled in Montana

[bwcobra15]

Originally Posted by CSX 4133

Move out of California....... problem solved.

Just don't come to Texas. We are full.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by ERA 626

not true, I just got a brand new roller from Bill Denbeste with no drivetrain Tiled in Montana

Huh??

[vntgspd]

Originally Posted by 6TNCRZY

My brother recently registered his ERA Cobra in California. The car was originally registered in New Jersey as a 1965 Cobra. When he registered in California, they registered it as a 1965 Cobra with the ERA VIN and only needed Highway Patrol inspection. I guess who you get at the DMV makes a difference too.

Did he register it with the SB100 process or just walk in and pay the fees for a 1965 Cobra?

If it's the latter, I suspect he will be getting a letter from the DMV in due time requiring him to come back in. Hopefully not!

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by 6TNCRZY

My brother recently registered his ERA Cobra in California. The car was originally registered in New Jersey as a 1965 Cobra. When he registered in California, they registered it as a 1965 Cobra with the ERA VIN and only needed Highway Patrol inspection. I guess who you get at the DMV makes a difference too.

Tell your brother that his car is registered illegally. California considers his registration fraudulent. The fact that dmv allowed his car to be registered as a 1965 vehicle will carry no weight if he is caught. They have no idea his car is actually a kit car. His car can be confiscated and he can face severe penalties if an aware cop stops him or checks his registration.
If it was my car, I would go back to dmv and start the sb100 process.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by jhv48

Tell your brother that his car is registered illegally. California considers his registration fraudulent. The fact that dmv allowed his car to be registered as a 1965 vehicle will carry no weight if he is caught. They have no idea his car is actually a kit car. His car can be confiscated and he can face severe penalties if an aware cop stops him or checks his registration.
If it was my car, I would go back to dmv and start the sb100 process.

There's an awful lot of speculation and heresay here. And while it COULD happen, it hasn't and people just get it fixed and move on. Don't worry, no hard time in San Quentin. In this case, however, it IS the DMV's problem.

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

There's an awful lot of speculation and heresay here. And while it COULD happen, it hasn't and people just get it fixed and move on. Don't worry, no hard time in San Quentin. In this case, however, it IS the DMV's problem.

All based on info provided to this site in previous threads by Robert Morgester. Do a search and you’ll find the facts.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by jhv48

All based on info provided to this site in previous threads by Robert Morgester. Do a search and you’ll find the facts.

From some guy with a superiority complex puffing his chest that doesn't work there any more. Again, don't get all scared over 10 year old chest thumping.

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by jhv48

Tell your brother that his car is registered illegally. California considers his registration fraudulent. The fact that dmv allowed his car to be registered as a 1965 vehicle will carry no weight if he is caught. They have no idea his car is actually a kit car. His car can be confiscated and he can face severe penalties if an aware cop stops him or checks his registration.
If it was my car, I would go back to dmv and start the sb100 process.

sounds like someone is a bit bitter?

[jhv48]

Facts are still facts whether you like them or not.
Proceed at your own risk. California wants every dollar they feel entitled to. If you register your car as a 1965 model, the registration fees are substantially less than the fees you would be charged if registered correctly. That is where the fraud aspect comes in.
The next potential problem comes when you try to insure the car. Are you going to try and insure it as a 1965 car? Now you are potentially opening yourself up to an insurance claim being denied because you misrepresented the year of the car and paid much lower premiums.
Why not just avoid all the potential downsides and register and insure the car properly.
Or gamble that you won’t get caught and enjoy the drive. At least you can make an informed decision.

[dutch21]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the insight. Put a deposit down and will be taking delivery sometime next year. From the conversation at Denbeste the 1965 title is very desirable for customers overseas. Bill has all the paperwork for the build and will provide once I decide to start the process with the DMV. Once I get closer to the finish line I will update what I went through on here for any updates / lessons learned. I already know I will have to update the PCV system before the BAR portion but I don't think that will break the bank. Thanks again everyone.

Sincerely,
Jason

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by dutch21

Hi guys,

Thanks for the insight. Put a deposit down and will be taking delivery sometime next year. From the conversation at Denbeste the 1965 title is very desirable for customers overseas. Bill has all the paperwork for the build and will provide once I decide to start the process with the DMV. Once I get closer to the finish line I will update what I went through on here for any updates / lessons learned. I already know I will have to update the PCV system before the BAR portion but I don't think that will break the bank. Thanks again everyone.

Sincerely,
Jason

Jason,

Listen to the above, the California Motor Vehicle Services division does review sites like this for threads just like this.

Enough said

Bill S.

[dutch21]

Thanks Bill,

In no way trying to pass this off as 1965. Will be going the SPCNS SB100 route as per the DMV requirements. Sorry if my last was misleading, was trying to explain the rationale for the title not what I was intending. I guess PM will be the path fwd. Thanks again.

Sincerely,
Jason

[MKS427]

Originally Posted by ERA 626

what is DPS?

DPS Department of Public Safety, or Arizona Highway patrol. They are the entity that perform level one and two inspections not the DMV.

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

If it's titled it's got to be a completed car with power train... It seems to be under control though.

WRONG, I just bought a car (roller) from Denbeste, it is titled im montana as a 65 shelby.

[twobjshelbys]

Well then Montana (once again) shows it is unique. I know of no other state that will issue a title to a MOTOR VEHICLE that isn't MOTORed...

The whole Montana thing is so shady that I'm surprised they continue to do it. No state allows it and if you get caught you're in deep doo doo.

PS. I heard you the first time.

[jhv48]

The Montana title scheme has been going on for years.
Here’s how it works:
“I get asked from time to time about the so-called Montana License Plate Scam: Can you safely register your vehicle in Montana and drive it in your non-Montana home state? There are a couple problems which might crop up if you give it a try.

Montana has no sales or use tax and no vehicle inspections. So, an industry has sprung up to assist people from other states who want to take advantage of Montana’s laws while living elsewhere.

The scam works like this: You hire a Montana law firm to form a corporation or limited liability company (LLC) for you. You own the LLC outright. Your exotic or expensive car or RV is purchased by your LLC. The LLC registers and plates the vehicle in Montana. You pay no sales or use tax and then bring your car to whatever state you live in and drive the vehicle with tax-free impunity. The only downside is that you have to put an ugly Montana plate on your vehicle. But hey - you saved thousands of dollars!

Interestingly, even the websites of the companies that promote this scam scheme hint that what you are doing is illegal:

Sales tax is generally due in the state of registration. Your vehicles will be registered in Montana which has no sales tax. You will need to understand and comply with use tax laws in the states where the vehicles are located.

*Wink, Wink!*

As the attorney in this relationship, I have to be the one to tell you the bad news, and it’s twofold bad news. As noted, this maneuver is probably illegal in your state. Yes, I know, you are going to argue that “you” don’t own the car - the LLC does. And you are merely driving your “company car.” Even though the company is a sham set up for the sole purpose of evading taxes. Do a quick Google search and see the various people who ended up being audited trying to defend this scheme.

I am not the fun police so I will tell you that in many states, you can probably do the foregoing and skate for quite a while without getting caught. Here’s where I’d be worried even if I thought I could dodge the IRS.

Do you plan on insuring your vehicle? You have a choice: Tell the insurance company the truth (“I live in Michigan, drive the vehicle almost exclusively in Michigan, store it and park it in Michigan, but have Montana plates on it in the name of a sham LLC.”) If you tell them the truth, will they insure the car?

Or you could tell them anything other than the previous parenthetical sentence, which would be a lie.

You might never get in an accident. But if you do, that Montana plate will pop up. Like, in the police report. And an insurance adjuster, scrutinizing your claim might wonder what false statements you made on your insurance application. False statements which form the basis of the denial letter you will receive shortly in the mail.

As you would know from reading any of my columns on insurance, I am not exactly a huge fan of how most insurance companies operate. But I am the first to point out that 1.) they are necessary and 2.) they can rightfully deny a claim in most states if it is shown that the underlying policy was obtained through fraud, even if the underlying fraud has nothing to do with your claim.”

So, it seems Denbeste is registering their rollers in Montana As 1965 Cobras so they will be more valuable to overseas buyers.