Denbeste CSX Montana title

[dutch21]

Hi Guys,

Long time lurker and first time poster. Went up to Denbeste last month and went on a tour of the showroom / engine factory / warehouse with Bill Denbeste himself. Seemed like a straight shooter and very gracious with his time taking us around.

Looked at one of his CSX cars and may be interested in buying. Called Bill and asked if the car was still available and it is, however, it is titled in Montana as a 1965 Shelby Cobra. I have researched the threads all about this in the registration forum but the last information was about a year ago so I wanted to see if anyone recently bought a car from Denbeste and if they registered in CA for SB100.

I asked Bill if he could title the car in CA with SB100 before I committed any $$ for a down payment but did not get the feeling he was willing to do that, this gives me great pause as I am not going to move forward with the uncertainty of not being able to register the car in CA. Any and all information is appreciated, it's a kirkham body CSX car.

Thanks fellas,
Jason

[NRP/MN]

The Montana title is fairly common for some who want to try and defeat their states sales or exise tax. You get a P.O. Box in Montana and register your car there. The state I live in has been busting the people here who have done that. A good friend was presented a $65,000.00 bill for excise tax on his $750,000.00 Monaco Coach. (Montana title). None of this helps your situation however but explains the reason for the title.Its a legitimate title but you would have to go through the hoops to get it registered. I am no expert on the California stuff but I assume where there is a will there is a way.Good luck.

[twobjshelbys]

Another reason is to to have a first title as a 65. Some also title In az.

True about clampdown on Montana regs. Colorado hit motor homes and boats a few years ago. Not only sales tax and back year registrations to current but fines and penalties.

[twobjshelbys]

As far as paying for the SB100 let me give you a similar example.

You're selling your house. Buyer says he'll buy it if you pay for 10000 of upgrades. Are you going to do it? Probably not. Why? Because the buyer could change his mind. As a broker, the best arrangement I could ever get between the two parties was an allowance in escrow. Most wouldn't even do that - buy it as is and do the upgrades yourself if and when you want.

An SB100 is NOT expensive, but it is time consuming. SB100's are no longer hard to get. There are plenty left every year. So it shouldn't be a concern that you can get one. It's just the time it takes to get it.

[1795]

Sounds to me like you are looking at two concerns. Will CA accept the Montana title as a 1965 and will you be able to get it titled under SB100. You might want to first verify if there will be any issues with the Montana title. SB100 from what I have seen, not living in CA but following discussion on the forum, seems to be a lengthy process, bu not insurmountable.

[ERA 626]

I just got a car from Bill as well... I have not titled the car yet as I am still building the motor. I am following this thread... I had an ERA car before I went the SB 100 route. I have heard from people in the business that if the car is registered as a 1965 it makes it very desirable for buyers over seas... I could be wrong... IDK

[jeffgrice]

Originally Posted by 1795

Sounds to me like you are looking at two concerns. Will CA accept the Montana title as a 1965 and will you be able to get it titled under SB100. You might want to first verify if there will be any issues with the Montana title. SB100 from what I have seen, not living in CA but following discussion on the forum, seems to be a lengthy process, bu not insurmountable.

With regard to driving a non CA titled car in CA please take care. Police will pull you over and challenge why an out of state car is being driven in CA. If visiting, no problem. If you respond that you live in CA there is a time limit to register in CA.

Now, there are many people who title in Montana and drive in CA without problem. But I can tell you my son's car which was titled in MI and he moved to CA, he was pulled over frequently and finally issued a ticket that he had to prove CA registration by a certain date.

JEff

[CSX 4133]

Move out of California....... problem solved.

[tom williams]

Jason,
Sent you a PM. Steven, around 360 days/year of drivable weather is hard to leave. I wish somebody would" make California great again".
Tom W

[MKS427]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Another reason is to to have a first title as a 65. Some also title In az.

I registered my FFR in AZ. I was told at the inspection station, run by DPS, they title replicas as what they represent including year for identification purposes on the road.

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by MKS427

I registered my FFR in AZ. I was told at the inspection station, run by DPS, they title replicas as what they represent including year for identification purposes on the road.

what is DPS?

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by ERA 626

what is DPS?

Probably Department of Public Safety, aka, "Highway Patrol".

[1ntCobra]

I thought that the SB-100 process gets done by the purchaser of the car. Can a dealer even go though the SB-100 process for a potential customer?

[peterpjb]

a Kirkham bodied CSX Cobra is the next best thing, go for it, registration is secondary...

[jhv48]

You will NOT be able to LEGALLY transfer the Montana registration to California. The reason is that your car is NOT a 1965 vehicle (it was not built in 1965). California considers this fraud if you transfer the title to a 1965 California title.
Thus, you will need to register it using the sb100 route. Lots of hoops to jump through but it can be done.
The first thing I would do is visit the dmv and talk to a supervisor about bringing in a completed kit car with a 1965 Montana title. Find one who knows their stuff or you’ll get the runaround. If they convince you it can be done, Then and only then would I buy the car.

[Randy Rosenberg]

Jim is correct on all counts. Additionally, having any/all build documentation would help greatly. Showing multiple receipts for the roller, the drive train, the installation, paint, etc... would help to prove that the vehicle meets the requirements for a "Specially Constructed Vehicle". I've heard a few horror stories of people being told by the BAR that their vehicle didn't meet the requirements (not Specially Constructed, but "Turnkey") and therefore being "un-title-able" in CA; then having to jump thru many, many hoops to prove otherwise. I'm sure that Denbeste is fully aware of SPCNS requirements and can provide you the documentation needed. If they don't have this documentation, then you may not be successful in titling it in CA, as an SPCNS.

Search this forum for threads on this subject.

Originally Posted by jhv48

You will NOT be able to LEGALLY transfer the Montana registration to California. The reason is that your car is NOT a 1965 vehicle (it was not built in 1965). California considers this fraud if you transfer the title to a 1965 California title.
Thus, you will need to register it using the sb100 route. Lots of hoops to jump through but it can be done.
The first thing I would do is visit the dmv and talk to a supervisor about bringing in a completed kit car with a 1965 Montana title. Find one who knows their stuff or you’ll get the runaround. If they convince you it can be done, Then and only then would I buy the car.

[vntgspd]

Yes to what Randy and Jim noted with a few more points:

I brought a completed car in from MA and successfully titled it under SB100. It was time consuming but not difficult (other than a few DMV folks along the way that did not know the process but wanted to pretend they did).

The listing on the title is not important...other than you can't "pretend" it's really a 1965. CA will issue a new title that typically lists the actual build year and SPCNS.

However, there are a few things that are critical to make it go smoothly:
1. Certificate of Origin from original MFR...aka MSO
2. Engine receipts including serial # if applicable
3. Transmission receipts

The MSO will establish relevant chassis ID, date, and origin. The engine and trans receipts will establish that parts were not from stolen vehicles. Part of the SB100 process includes CHP inspection and they are looking for stolen parts. This process goes quickly if you have good documentation.

If the paperwork is in order from Denbeste then the SB100 process won't be an issue. It takes about 2 months (maybe longer with COVID) but the DMV issues a temporary tag so you can drive it while working through the process.

[jhv48]

As said above, plus, you might have to prove that the Car was actually assembled by two different businesses thus avoiding the appearance that the car was originally purchased as a turn key vehicle. What that means is that one shop sold the roller chassis and another separate shop/individual, with no ties to the first retailer, did the rest of the installation. California has been known to deny registration if they suspect the car wasn’t actually a kit. So, have your receipts for the chassis and the receipts for the engine/transmission installation with you. And make sure the receipts are from two different entities and addresses.
Good luck. It will be worth it in the end.

[dutch21]

Thanks everyone for the replies and knowledge on this subject. Had a call with Bill Denbeste this afternoon and gave him my concerns regarding the SB100 process. He did assure me that he would absolutely assist me with completing the process before I take the car and has the MSO / engine and transmission receipts / install receipts, etc. I will be up there to take a look at the paperwork next few weeks and will go from there. Again, thank you all for the information and guidance.

[427Larry]

dutch21, I have a CSX 4000 Aluminum car for sale, SB100 Compliant, beautiful car, reasonable price. I also sent you a PM with my contact info., if you are further interested. Thank you