Oil Themostat

[FredG]

The time has come to install an oil thermostat to get the oil temp up. Blocking off the oil cooler still isn't getting the temp high enough. I know the subject of oil temp has been previously discussed. I went back and read all the threads. I chose the higher end model by Improved. It is pictured below. The question is what temp to get. They offer 145, 165, 185, 205 & 215 degrees. Your thoughts on which temp to choose.

Thanks
Fred

[spdbrake]

I went with an Earl's sandwich adapter attached to the remote filter head.
https://www.holley.com/products/plum...t/parts/502ERL Starts to open @ 160f, full open by 180f.

Improved Racing does make nice looking equipment.
Personally I like the Integral Thermostat Filter head or Sandwich adapter over any In-line thermostat simply because you only have 4 hoses VS the 5 hoses with an in-line installation. Just a bit cleaner look without a loop-back line.
If my Earl's sandwich themo dies I'll most likely buy a Improved Racing remote head thermo in 185f.
Remote Engine & Transmission Oil Filter Mount with Thermostat ENV-170

Routing description on different types of installs:
https://documents.holley.com/199r10647rev1.pdf

[FredG]

Glad you mentioned that because the hose thing was a concern. I am going to look the sandwich adapter just for the sake of simplicity and now I know someone who has used it. I reached out to Roush and they told me every engine that is dyno tested is done at 200 degrees but that is without the cooler. They were surprised to hear the oil temp was that cool. I told them there is a lot of discussion about it.

Fred

Originally Posted by spdbrake

I went with an Earl's sandwich adapter attached to the remote filter head.
https://www.holley.com/products/plum...t/parts/502ERL Starts to open @ 160f, full open by 180f.

Improved Racing does make nice looking equipment.
Personally I like the Integral Thermostat Filter head or Sandwich adapter over any In-line thermostat simply because you only have 4 hoses VS the 5 hoses with an in-line installation. Just a bit cleaner look without a loop-back line.
If my Earl's sandwich themo dies I'll most likely buy a Improved Racing remote head thermo in 185f.
Remote Engine & Transmission Oil Filter Mount with Thermostat ENV-170

Routing description on different types of installs:
https://documents.holley.com/199r10647rev1.pdf

[1795]

I would not go below 185. On my race engine, without a thermostat and running a cooler I get my oil up to about 220. Of course, that is with running the engine at high rpms and changing the oi more often than you would on a street engine. I would not suggest that you want to run your oil that hot.

[eschaider]

Fred,

Two thoughts and one comment;

Thought #1

I got the same T-Stat you are considering. I chose it because of it's high capacity flow characteristics (no oil starvation issues) and the ability change temps later if I wanted to. Here is a short article on optimum oil temp from Hot Rod, click here => Optimum Engine Oil Temp. When I selected my temp I was not as scientific. I just wanted a temp the was above boiling for water so any moisture would be evaporated and not mixed with oil. In fairness I dod recall reading somewhere that oil should be above the 200˚F threshold for best lubriction. I selected a 215˚ internal spring.

Thought #2

Check out your plumbing diagrams they shipped with the T-Stat. The T-Stat design they use allows for a very simplified addition of a cooler. You only use one line to the cooler and one line from the cooler and they are attached at the to cooler and from cooler ports.

Comment

If you haven't purchased the T-Stat yet when you do and open the box your decision to purchase the Improved Racing T-Stat will be immediately reinforced by the design and quality of the piece. It is also stunningly small so it takes up very little space. If you haven't purchased yet be sure to get their AN hardware. you can't buy less expensively and on the nipples they use a -12 id all the way through to the -10 ORB side so there is nor restriction to the oil flow.

That is a great T-Stat. The longer you have it the more you'll like it.


Ed

[patrickt]

We've all had coolant thermostats that failed and we would overheat and have to replace them. No big deal. But if this little baby fails, and you get no oil flow through the thermostat, your engine will be a sad mess. I'm curious, do they limit their warranty to just a replacement of the faulty thermostat should that occur? And yes, that means you have to read the warranty.

[Moriarty]

I'm confused. If blocking off the oil cooler isn't getting the temp high enough, how will this help?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Moriarty

I'm confused. If blocking off the oil cooler isn't getting the temp high enough, how will this help?

I think even when you block off the cooler by putting something in front of it (like I do), it still does some cooling if the back fins are exposed to moving air. Now, if he wrapped that cooler tight as a drum with aluminum foil, then yeah the cooler ain't doing that much cooling to begin with....

[eschaider]

The T-Stat that Fred is looking at from Improved provides a 100% flow through the cooler when fully opened. In the full off condition there is still something like a 10% flow through the cooler. The image below illustrates the operation better than I explain it;



Failure in the full on condition would maintain very cool oil and failure in the full off condition would still provide for some level of cooling from the oil cooler.

In the end there is no substitute for paying attention to the good looking gauges on our dashboards however if you're the forgetful type you can always build a flashing light circuit or buzzer circuit to draw your attention to a T-Stat failure.

If you want to get real fancy you can build in a warm up circuit that does not trigger the alarm until some point in time you feel is appropriate i.e. up to temperature or some amount of running time etc.

Most of the SetRab oil coolers we use, w/o a T-Stat, will over cool the oil for the typical replica. It may be a small cooler but it has prodigious cooling capability..


Ed

[FredG]

Just to see what happens, I am going to wrap the back of the cooler as well to see what happens with the temp.

Originally Posted by patrickt

I think even when you block off the cooler by putting something in front of it (like I do), it still does some cooling if the back fins are exposed to moving air. Now, if he wrapped that cooler tight as a drum with aluminum foil, then yeah the cooler ain't doing that much cooling to begin with....

[FredG]

Ed.

Thanks for the input. First hand experience is always the best. I have heard a lot of good things about the quality of this thermostat. I do believe that this company makes the same unit but it is integrated into a remote oil filter. I am going to look at that option and compare what is the easiest conversion . As usual I will read, research and investigate the snot out of this before I move on it.

Fred

Originally Posted by eschaider

Fred,

Two thoughts and one comment;

Thought #1

I got the same T-Stat you are considering. I chose it because of it's high capacity flow characteristics (no oil starvation issues) and the ability change temps later if I wanted to. Here is a short article on optimum oil temp from Hot Rod, click here => Optimum Engine Oil Temp. When I selected my temp I was not as scientific. I just wanted a temp the was above boiling for water so any moisture would be evaporated and not mixed with oil. In fairness I dod recall reading somewhere that oil should be above the 200˚F threshold for best lubriction. I selected a 215˚ internal spring.

Thought #2

Check out your plumbing diagrams they shipped with the T-Stat. The T-Stat design they use allows for a very simplified addition of a cooler. You only use one line to the cooler and one line from the cooler and they are attached at the to cooler and from cooler ports.

Comment

If you haven't purchased the T-Stat yet when you do and open the box your decision to purchase the Improved Racing T-Stat will be immediately reinforced by the design and quality of the piece. It is also stunningly small so it takes up very little space. If you haven't purchased yet be sure to get their AN hardware. you can't buy less expensively and on the nipples they use a -12 id all the way through to the -10 ORB side so there is nor restriction to the oil flow.

That is a great T-Stat. The longer you have it the more you'll like it.


Ed

[joyridin']

I have an Improved Racing thermostat in my Cobra. It opens at 180. Unless I am running the car REAL hard or sitting in traffic on a 90 degree day, the oil never gets that hot.

[DesertMK4]

I used a sandwich thermostat that fits between the oil filter and the side of the block. Be sure you have enough clearance at that point. Small block should fit. BB I don't know? Next, what is your sensor location? Side low in pan or front on small dip in pan? This will make about 10 degrees F. difference. In my opinion oil isn't heated up until about 165 degrees and doesn't need to be cooled much before 200. Anywhere between the two should work just fine. I see about a 10 degree drop across my cooler (by IR measure).

[FredG]

Side low on the Roush 427r.

Originally Posted by DesertMK4

I used a sandwich thermostat that fits between the oil filter and the side of the block. Be sure you have enough clearance at that point. Small block should fit. BB I don't know? Next, what is your sensor location? Side low in pan or front on small dip in pan? This will make about 10 degrees F. difference. In my opinion oil isn't heated up until about 165 degrees and doesn't need to be cooled much before 200. Anywhere between the two should work just fine. I see about a 10 degree drop across my cooler (by IR measure).

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by FredG

Ed.

Thanks for the input. First hand experience is always the best. I have heard a lot of good things about the quality of this thermostat. I do believe that this company makes the same unit but it is integrated into a remote oil filter. I am going to look at that option and compare what is the easiest conversion . As usual I will read, research and investigate the snot out of this before I move on it.

Fred

They do Fred. It is actually a nicely integrated package. This is a pic of it,

But the nice integration adds about $100 to the price. Probably not a big issue especially after you subtract the price of an oil filter remote.

BTW their documentation looks as good as their products. Download the doc for the integrated unit. It is both very clean and readable with the extra added attraction that it gives you a better understanding of the product and how it works.

These guys seem to have a well honed knack for not just making clean functional products but the packaging (product and engineering) along with the doc all meet the same high bar — and at a reasonable price.


Ed

[twobjshelbys]

I think a higher temperature setting is in order. Assuming the set point is where the thermostat opens. Why? I'll explain where I was headed before I sold my car.

I was brung up to believe that the oil is a lubricant and not a coolant. And that if the oil didn't get above 212 then the condensation inside the pan would be a problem - ie, oil above the boiling point of water.

I always thought the Roush 427IR ran 5oo "cold" for my liking (hardly every above the 190* setpoint of the thermostat). Two reasons:

1. The radiator is huge.
2. The oil cooler just adds to the radiator "exposure".

The net was my engine usually ran cold. I even put in a higher set point thermostat (190?)

If I had added an oil cooler thermostat I would have set it to be above the radiator thermostat so the oil cooler SUPPLEMENTS the radiator and kicks in ABOVE the radiator set point. Let the radiator do its work and let the oil cooler kick in when the radiator is unable to do its job. In reality, that translates to hardly ever I figure it would have been mostly city stop-n-go since when moving the radiator is actually oversized and the engine runs cool.

185 might be too low, 220 too high.

[Chilibit]

Once the motor is warmed up I just run more RPMs to hover around 90-100C. And I don't think it needs to run 'hot' all the time. If I run for 3 hours and it is hot for only one I am happy. In fact, even though I think this thermo is a nice engineering piece I would find it a bit too controlling.

[eschaider]

While there seem to be any number of these papers available this one is rather interesting. It argues for a temp around 190˚F rather than the 212˚F temp I tend to favor for vaporizing moisture in the oil. Decent read, not sure what the real answer is, but worth a look.

Turns out the pdf is too big for the site so here is the link to a downloadable pdf => Optimum Oil Temp

Ed

[patrickt]

Any time we have an oil temperature debate around here, we always like to include this chart. We also usually include a few fancy airplane engine articles too, those generally tend to come in a few degrees lower than this chart for the "absolutely, perfect, you're wonderful, you're doing great" temperature for oil.

[FredG]

Today was the first nice day in a while. I have the front of the cooler blocked off with insulated metal duct tape. Temp is pushing 90 outside. Took a nice long ride. Oil temp on gauge reads constantly at 140-150 degrees. I took several readings with a laser temp reader and engine running.

Remote oil filter- 205 degrees
oil cooler input line - 190 degrees
oil cooler output line - 175 degrees
oil pan next to sending unit - 185 degrees.

This is a new autometer gauge and sending unit.
Old autometer gauge and sending unit never got above 150 degrees also.

Thoughts.......

Thanks

Fred