Safety Wire Question

[FredG]

Synopsis:
Either wire will work. I prefer the thinner.
Wire is just to check the spinner not hold it on.
Get the longer, spring loaded pliers.
Be stingy with the anti-seize.
I might add to purchase one of the spinner removal tools as they are much easier to use when removing the spinner than the lead hammer.

Fred

[NROTOXIN]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

This is correct. Safety wire isn't really strong enough to hold the spinner in place. It's just there to let you know when it's coming loose.

"Contrary to popular belief, even the best job of safety wiring will contribute virtually nothing to the task of preventing a bolt from loosening to the point where effective levels of residual stress disappear. All that safety wire can do is limit the rotation of a bolt and prevent it's physical departure."

Carrol Smith.

I make mine snug, with very little slack. Then use the pliers to bend the wire
90*. The wire kind of looks like a Z. If the spinner comes loose, it will straighten out the wire, and I'll see it.

I make my wire tight. If it holds the knock off, great, if the wire breaks that is my indicator that the knock off has started going in a direction without permission.

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by spdbrake

I would ask who in the *uck is Carrol Smith, but that would be adding more Kool-aid to the pitcher.

I'm sorry you don't know who Carroll Smith is/was. Maybe you should find out?

You could, instead, read this: https://www.racingjunk.com/news/safe...t-safety-wire/

[Karl Bebout]

That Never Seize does the job, but Lordy is it nasty! Somehow a little spot of it on your pinky will find it's way all over both arms, your left ear, and both your ankles.
Cobra Valley sells a very nice, clear, anti-seize, anti-galling stuff that I greatly prefer. Here again, a TINY bit is all that's needed. It too, will squeeze out and be messy, if you use too much. my 2¢ worth

[spdbrake]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

I'm sorry you don't know who Carroll Smith is/was. Maybe you should find out?

You could, instead, read this: https://www.racingjunk.com/news/safe...t-safety-wire/

LOL, I found out Carrol Smith writes books about racing. I thought for a nano second he had some Aerospace Experience and practical knowledge.

That racing junk article is ..well.. junk. One of the ugliest and worthless safeties I've seen.

Lets agree to disagree Bob. I work in a different industry with much higher standards. If folks want loose safeties on their wheels so be it.

These are all our own hobby cars and I'll still putter around mine safetying stuff.

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by Karl Bebout

That Never Seize does the job, but Lordy is it nasty! Somehow a little spot of it on your pinky will find it's way all over both arms, your left ear, and both your ankles.
Cobra Valley sells a very nice, clear, anti-seize, anti-galling stuff that I greatly prefer. Here again, a TINY bit is all that's needed. It too, will squeeze out and be messy, if you use too much. my 2¢ worth

I agree with Karl. The Cobra Valley anti-seize is awesome. No huge mess to clean up after you use it if used correctly. I started using it on my spark plugs as the stuff is so nice. No smears of silver or copper all over your engine after trying to install the plugs.

[CompClassics]

Anybody that thinks safety wire will keep your knock-off from loosening and the wheel from departing the vehicle is just fooling themselves. You would have to use a wire gauge that is so large that it would be impractical, think about the forces involved. Safety wire works awesome for light duty applications such as nut and bolt fixtures, etc. but you are playing with a lot of torque and weight with something as large as a knock-off and wheel especially when that wheel is rotating at any given speed.

[hauss]

Harbor freight stainless wire {whatever gauge they have in stock } and spiner pliers. 911 tool and lead hammer. As far as anti seize easier to wipe away a little mess than to remove stuck spinner. FYI. I have had to do both that's how I know. lead hamer means lead hammer not lead shot dead blow hammer! Must have lead hammer get one or do not even attempt the job!

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by hauss

! Must have lead hammer get one or do not even attempt the job!

The guy from American Hammer used to be on here and he had a great deal for members. I don't know if they still do it or not. The good thing about their hammers is they can be recast for a relatively small charge.

[Jim Vander Wal]

Another vote for RT's (cobra valley) snake snot anti-sieze and it cleans up fairly easy.

On safety wires, I used it for the first 15-20k miles, then never again for the last 40k.

Jim SPF 1855 & 2584
Current FFR 8885 has lugnuts

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by spdbrake

LOL, I found out Carrol Smith writes books about racing. I thought for a nano second he had some Aerospace Experience and practical knowledge.

That's all you learned? That he writes books? Sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Here's something I might try tomorrow. Tighten down a spinner with a lead hammer just like before. Then see how much torque it takes to loosen it. Then start over, and see how much torque it takes to loosen it with the safety wire in place. Then see how much torque it takes to break the wire. That would be interesting.

[FredG]

Unfortunately, I can tell you from experience the standard gauge wire won't hold the spinner in place. Luckily it did very little damage when tire came off and it came off quickly.

Fred

Originally Posted by bobcowan

That's all you learned? That he writes books? Sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Here's something I might try tomorrow. Tighten down a spinner with a lead hammer just like before. Then see how much torque it takes to loosen it. Then start over, and see how much torque it takes to loosen it with the safety wire in place. Then see how much torque it takes to break the wire. That would be interesting.

[CompClassics]

Take a look at how many manufacturers manufactured cars with knock-off type wheels, MG, AC, Jaguar, GM, Ford, Porsche, Maserati, etc, etc. How many of these manufacturers used safety wire?

[Snake2998]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

That's all you learned? That he writes books? Sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Here's something I might try tomorrow. Tighten down a spinner with a lead hammer just like before. Then see how much torque it takes to loosen it. Then start over, and see how much torque it takes to loosen it with the safety wire in place. Then see how much torque it takes to break the wire. That would be interesting.

It would be very interesting to hear the results of that. Please do it.

[Snake2998]

I am currently using 1.2mm galvanised binding wire as safety wire as SS wire in suitable sizes not readily available in South Africa. I will replace it a couple of times a year. Importing anything from the states adds $90.00 to the price for postage plus 50% duty killing the deal.

Anybody else use Galvanised wire?

I have used it on bolts before and it lasted up to 20 years.

[eschaider]

Wherever your wire changes directions by going through the little hole in the spinner or around the spoke of the wheel it will not have a smooth radius on the inside of the turn. When it gets that sharp bend it will break with far less tension than the cross sectional area of the wire would lead you to believe it would. I believe the metallurgy guys call it a notch fracture. It's sort of like scribing a line on glass — we know where it will fracture.

The safety wire is not intended to keep the spinner tight as someone who sees it for the first time might think. It is simply the canary in your spinner coal mine. If you install it to show a slack if the nut turns or as in Bob's case, slack with a visible bend to see if the wire tightened when the nut loosened it probably doesn't much matter.

What does matter is it is something you want to make a habit of regularly checking before driving so you don't have an unhappy surprise. The commentary from some of us who have experienced the loosening spinner is very real. The safety wire will not keep the spinner from loosening but it will warn you if it starts to.

BTW the only time spinners come off easily is when you don't want them to. When you want to remove them, a spinner removal tool will look like cheap money the moment you beat up a spinner wing from beating on it to loosen the spinner or worse break off.


Ed

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by eschaider

Wherever your wire changes directions by going through the little hole in the spinner or around the spoke of the wheel it will not have a smooth radius on the inside of the turn. When it gets that sharp bend it will break with far less tension than the cross sectional area of the wire would lead you to believe it would. I believe the metallurgy guys call it a notch fracture. It's sort of like scribing a line on glass — we know where it will fracture.

The safety wire is not intended to keep the spinner tight as someone who sees it for the first time might think. It is simply the canary in your spinner coal mine. If you install it to show a slack if the nut turns or as in Bob's case, slack with a visible bend to see if the wire tightened when the nut loosened it probably doesn't much matter.

What does matter is it is something you want to make a habit of regularly checking before driving so you don't have an unhappy surprise. The commentary from some of us who have experienced the loosening spinner is very real. The safety wire will not keep the spinner from loosening but it will warn you if it starts to.

BTW the only time spinners come off easily is when you don't want them to. When you want to remove them, a spinner removal tool will look like cheap money the moment you beat up a spinner wing from beating on it to loosen the spinner or worse break off.


Ed

This is the BEST piece of mechanical explanation I have read for sometime.

This is THE way to do safety wire for a spinner, since the size of componentry and the torque involved FAR outweighs what would be the equivalent function when adding safety wire to smaller parts.

[RUFdriver]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

Take a look at how many manufacturers manufactured cars with knock-off type wheels, MG, AC, Jaguar, GM, Ford, Porsche, Maserati, etc, etc. How many of these manufacturers used safety wire?

Porsche uses a proprietary locking mechanism on their center lock wheels. Not sure why there is nothing similar for a Cobra. I thought the Backdraft had a lock of some sort and safety wires weren’t really needed, anyone know for sure?

[eschaider]

I don't believe any replica manufacturer or wheel manufacturer offers a spinner lock. Kirkham offers a very nice pin lock to retain the center "hub caps" but I would not consider it a spinner lock. That said it should initially prevent the spinner from completely escaping however, because of its small diameter, after the spinner loosens, a couple of right or left turns I suspect, might shear it off.

Best solution so far has always come down to the safety wire and pliers ...


Ed

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by RUFdriver

Porsche uses a proprietary locking mechanism on their center lock wheels. Not sure why there is nothing similar for a Cobra. I thought the Backdraft had a lock of some sort and safety wires weren’t really needed, anyone know for sure?

The BDR has a cap that screws on to the end of center hub. If the spinner comes loose, it cannot get past that cap. But the wheel will be so loose that you won't be driving if it gets to that point.

It wouldn't take much to make an aluminum spacer to put a little pressure on the spinner