The Cobra S/C or Comp 427 FE Engine - What is the real thing?

[CobraAddict]

In my continued journey to enlightenment in trying to build myself an authentic look/feel Cobra 427 S/C, I have now gotten to the engine.
There are many high qualify engine builders in the states and I am hoping to engage with one of these to build me a period correct 427 FE side oiler with medium rise heads , single 4 barrel Holley etc, etc.

Now I was under the impression that the Comp and S/C cars had the 427 with the alloy heads, magnesium intake manifold and alloy water pump.
However a particular well know engine builder I am liaising with is adamant that this is not the case, at least not for the two examples I told him I was interested in emulating, the S/C CSX3045 or the Comp car CSX3016. He claims both of these cars have the same C5AE-F cast iron medium rise heads and Sidewinder aluminium intakes and not the aluminium heads and magnesium intakes that are suggested in the literature I have. He claims that in 1965 the only aluminium heads available were for the experimental GT40 program!

So my question now is what makes up a period correct Cobra 427 FE side oiler engine for an S/C and a Comp car? Does anyone have any accurate specifications they could share?

Aside from the twin carbs and detuning, what other differences were there between the Comp and S/C engines?

Another unrelated question I have. I assume the radiator expansion tank should be black yet I have a reference photo of an S/C, CSX3021, where they make reference to the ‘proper Ford Corporate Blue’ radiator expansion tank! Yet it’s the only one I have seen that is blue!?
What colour should it be?

Best Regs from Oz

[coryh]

Oz
Regarding the expansion tank. I can confirm that a world class restoration shop just completed a 427 a few cars from the one you quote and the expansion tank was in fact "ford corporate blue". I wish I could share photos but I can't. Sorry.
Cory

[LMH]

On the expansion tanks as stated previously, there were some with blue and others with black. Pick one original car and copy it.

Larry

[Bruce Robles]

All Comp. cars and most SC's were built in 1965. Ford Engines were Black in 1965. In 1966 Ford changed the engine color to Corporate Blue.
The engine block in my '66 GT-350 was blue. The engine block in our '65 competition GT-350R was Black.
Ford quit sending black 427 Sideoilers to Shelby in '66 and replaced them with the 428 (it was Blue) engine found in a car Ford named the 7 Litre. A Galaxy 500 XL with the 428. It was the only car in the line up with the 428 at that time. It was basically just a bigger 390, said to have 335HP. They were also used in police cars. My mother had one, it ran pretty good. So to cut to the chase, Blue tanks were sent to Shelby with the Blue engines from Ford that were 428's. Black tanks were sent on the '65 and early '66 427 powered cars. So that may explain why there are some who say there is no right and no wrong. That car was probably a late build and had a '66 Blue engine. Nobody knows. Hand built cars are sometimes that way.
As far as the intake is concerned, both the street 427 and the 428 had dual quads on an aluminum manifold, with iron heads.
The 427 Comp. and SC's came with the single Holley 780cfm (Le Mans) carb on an aluminum dual plane manifold and side pipes. Good Luck

[LMH]

Originally Posted by Bruce Robles

All Comp. cars and most SC's were built in 1965. Ford Engines were Black in 1965. In 1966 Ford changed the engine color to Corporate Blue.
The engine block in my '66 GT-350 was blue. The engine block in our '65 competition GT-350R was Black.
Ford quit sending black 427 Sideoilers to Shelby in '66 and replaced them with the 428 (it was Blue) engine found in a car Ford named the 7 Litre. A Galaxy 500 XL with the 428. It was the only car in the line up with the 428 at that time. It was basically just a bigger 390, said to have 335HP. They were also used in police cars. My mother had one, it ran pretty good. So to cut to the chase, Blue tanks were sent to Shelby with the Blue engines from Ford that were 428's. Black tanks were sent on the '65 and early '66 427 powered cars. So that may explain why there are some who say there is no right and no wrong. That car was probably a late build and had a '66 Blue engine. Nobody knows. Hand built cars are sometimes that way.
As far as the intake is concerned, both the street 427 and the 428 had dual quads on an aluminum manifold, with iron heads.
The 427 Comp. and SC's came with the single Holley 780cfm (Le Mans) carb on an aluminum dual plane manifold and side pipes. Good Luck

Sorry but that information is not entirely correct: Standard production rules for Cobras and Cobra 427's may not be the same as the Mustang based cars produced by SA. Quote from Dan Case from a thread a few yeas ago:

"427 Cobra "FE" engines. I won’t claim to be a 427 Cobra expert but I do help with research for a few original car owners and restorers. I play and study with 1963-65 Cobras but occasionally come up with 1966-67 427 Cobra information.

#1 There was not “an” engine for production 427 Cobras sold retail. I won’t begin to try and drop off into what was possible for Shelby team “company” racers CSX30xx chassis.

#2 The final Shelby American purchase order list itemizes three 427 c.i.d. engines and one 428 c.i.d. engine for 427 Cobra production. The purchase order list doesn’t cover race only stuff and the document given to buyers of racing 427 Cobras with a list of recommended spare parts doesn’t cover entire engines.

So what I have factory documentation on variants wise includes:

1965 Galaxie 8V engines most CSX31xx chassis (automatic transmission also used with 1965 Galaxie 8V manual transmission engine after appropriate parts swaps…at least the surviving original engine assembly tags say so) = black

1966 Fairlane 8V engines in some CSX30xx chassis (standard 427 S/C 2-4V engine) = blue

1966 428PI manual transmission (which must have been super rare even new) engines in most CSX32xx chassis = blue

1967? (I don’t have a picture of an engine assembly tag. The Shelby American original purchase order list doesn’t say what the model year was, it just gives the engine code and description “427 CID 4V Special”. ) 427 4V engines in CSX33xx chassis = blue


Ford “blue” engine paint. No it was not the same every year. Ford started with blue V8 engines for the 1966 model year as far as I have experienced."


I'm sure if there's new info or updates, Dan will comment.

Larry

[xb-60]

CobraAddict,

If you build an accurate replica of a 427 S/C Cobra in Australia, it would surely be almost unique here.
I, and many others, will very interested in following your build.

Go for it!

Cheers,
Glen

[1985 CCX]

As we all know there were several variants in the process and blue or black engines were produced in these. I know of one that had the exp Ford alloy heads but I am sure there was variety. Remember S/C cars were slow movers so they span a large time period. That is where it gets confusing and details grey.

Guess you have to start with the car you have, very expensive to replicate these cars and hoping you are doing it with a high end car as that is where your money is best spent. In todays world you could punch a 390, new heads, period manifold paint it and get more performance and same visuals than a real anything. My two cents unless you are starting with ERA, HiTech, KMS or CSX spend the cash on the base car as it will be better dollar value as 60's engines ah well they are basic and meant to last versus make power. It reminds me of the guy that say's "I have a Corvette motor in my Monte Carlo" SO WHAT?

If your going to spend the dollars to duplicate originality do it with a car that will at least be worth the effort.
I know of at least one Comp car that used alloy heads and GT40 dry sump.
I know of another that used magnesium intake, ETOH in fuel will eat it up.....
All the best on your quest!