Kirkham vs Shelby

[nkb]

Originally Posted by ERA 626

I have owned both cars ERA and CSX (427s) I can tell you from 1st hand experience:

I got my HT/SPF CSX car from Denbeste, Bill is a great guy and was very helpful on the sale of the car but that's where his customer service stops. Bill directed me to call Hillbank for service issues and parts. The customer service from Hillbank (CSX and SPF dealer) is the worst I have ever dealt with EVER.

I often called David Kirkham for help on issues I had with my CSX car as the kirkham car and the GLASS CSX car are very similar (except the glass body) David Kirkham is just like Peter P in terms of customer service. A++

ERA is the exact Opposite, Peter is the best in the business. he has help me over the 17 years I owned the car and even to this day...

I cant say anything about the slabside cars as I have owned 427 cars, but one thing I can say is the SPF 427 and the CSX GLASS HT/SPF cars are completely different. I am not saying one is better than the other, I am simply stating they are different cars completely.

in terms of the quality of the roller:
The Era car was perfect everything was bolt on...

The CSX Car had several issues that needed to be repaired, some done in the south Africa factory and most of the issues like the wrong hardware being installed in the drive train and the electrical/gauges being wired wrong were done by Hillbank or whoever they hired to do the installation. Needless to say it took me a lot of time to fix all the issues with the car. But at the end of the day its a top shelf car... The ERA was perfect from day one.

But if holding value is an issue you cant go wrong with either the ERA, SPF or the CSX.

ERA 626 appreciate your comments above. I also read your build thread. One thing I didn't appreciate is that apparently the SPF rollers are not complete from the factory but require work by the local dealer/distributor prior to delivery ?

The shoddy work on your fuel sender and other areas makes me question the SPF touted claim of delivering a high quality consistent build, only needing engine and transmission to complete.

Who does this "finish work" on the SPF roller prior to delivery? If left to the dealer I can imagine certain dealers are better than others. There apparently is an "added value" regarding the dealer quality/capabilities to consider when choosing whom to buy from rather just on price. Probably true for any car purchase but especially if the dealer is actually assembling part of the car.

I believe you bought your car from Denbeste and then indicated that Hillbank did various work (gauges, drivetrain, fuel tank, ...) on your car prior to delivery. I am not sure how that works and is supposed to be coordinated. As you indicated it might be much easier to interface with ERA rather than being bounced around the SPF network.

Can someone clarify how and what the ex-factory SPF prep that is done prior to delivery of the roller to the buyer?

[1795]

I purchased an SPF 289 FIA and have also helped an SPF dealer (Mark IV) unload a couple of SPF rollers from the delivery truck. For the roller I received and the ones that I helped unload, the only thing that the dealer has to install is the wheels. The rollers arrive bolted to a metal frame for transport with the wheels boxed separately.

I cannot speak to why ERA 626 had to have the dealer install anything, unless there were changes from an already delivered roller that they had in stock?

Being that mine was being made into a vintage race car, I had to disassemble the car to make into a race car. It would have been much easier if it had shown up in pieces!

I wish that you were closer, I would show you the car and answer any questions that you have. If you want to talk, send me a PM with your phone number and we can chat. Good luck in your decision making. I previously owned an ERA 427 car and concur with your pros and cons. If you were to go with the ERA route I would suggest that you pay the extra money and go with their outboard brake upgrade. Much easier to service than those inboard brakes.

Jim

[patrickt]

NKB -- I'm going to tell you what to do. Go with the ERA and don't look back. Throw as much money at Peter and the boys as they want and the car will turn out to be exactly what you want. If you do this, you will be happy. Trust me, I'm right on this.

[sgianino]

100% With Patrick!!

[nkb]

Originally Posted by 1795

I purchased an SPF 289 FIA and have also helped an SPF dealer (Mark IV) unload a couple of SPF rollers from the delivery truck. For the roller I received and the ones that I helped unload, the only thing that the dealer has to install is the wheels. The rollers arrive bolted to a metal frame for transport with the wheels boxed separately.

I cannot speak to why ERA 626 had to have the dealer install anything, unless there were changes from an already delivered roller that they had in stock?

Being that mine was being made into a vintage race car, I had to disassemble the car to make into a race car. It would have been much easier if it had shown up in pieces!

I wish that you were closer, I would show you the car and answer any questions that you have. If you want to talk, send me a PM with your phone number and we can chat. Good luck in your decision making. I previously owned an ERA 427 car and concur with your pros and cons. If you were to go with the ERA route I would suggest that you pay the extra money and go with their outboard brake upgrade. Much easier to service than those inboard brakes.

Jim

Thanks for the input.

Regarding the inboard brakes, according to the ERA website only the FIA has an option for the outboard brake upgrade. So, for the regular ERA slab side the only option is the inboard Jaguar setup. Also, only the inboard brake version allows for the exhaust out the back (which I want).

A careful analysis of pricing indicates that the SPF and ERA are almost the same price ("apples to apples"), depending on the final cost for painting the ERA (included on the SPF). So cost between the two is not really a differentiator.

Still weighing pros and cons. A big one appears to be the longer delivery time on the ERA. Close to a year more.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by nkb

Close to a year more.

Had you sent Peter a check when you started this thread it would only be eleven months more.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

My 50 cents here. The quality of the ERA product is second to none. They will never let a car go without being near-perfect. And if you have a problem, Peter will fix it, or make it right. Fifteen years on the road, and no issues at all. That's a 427 car. I expect the slab car is just as refined.

[ERA 626]

Let me be clear, I got the car from Denbeste. Bill and Lori Denbeste are great people to deal with but Bill just sells cars that bought form other people like Hillbank and Kirkham.They do Not build the cars in house.

My car was build in late 2011 and was sitting on the "cobra wall for 9 years before I got the car. bill got the car from hillbank. all the work that was done to the car after it was shipped from South Africa was done by hillbank and or a sub contractor for hillbank, I think I know who it is but I wont say it here. PM me for details. Who ever did the final assembly was a first class idiot. I am not talking a simple mistake I am talking being incompetent, view my build thread about the fuel sender and the vent lines. The key switch was WIRED WRONG. but the car is amazing after I addressed these issues. I am sure Denbeste did not know about these issues and he would have fixed them had I took the car back to him again Bill and Lori are good people. I decided to just fix the car myself. I am a garage mechanic with over 20 years experiance with cobras and Racing. I also have a nice lift in my garage. But for the average joe who wants a roller ready to bolt in a drive train. be prepared to spend some time fixing stuff or just get a Kirkham for $100k more. I wanted a CSX car and at the end of the Day I am happy. but if money was not an issue I would get a Kirkham built CSX. The ERA car I had was great and so is ERA customer service.

Hillbank is horrible.

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by nkb

Thanks for the input.

Regarding the inboard brakes, according to the ERA website only the FIA has an option for the outboard brake upgrade. So, for the regular ERA slab side the only option is the inboard Jaguar setup. Also, only the inboard brake version allows for the exhaust out the back (which I want).

A careful analysis of pricing indicates that the SPF and ERA are almost the same price ("apples to apples"), depending on the final cost for painting the ERA (included on the SPF). So cost between the two is not really a differentiator.

Still weighing pros and cons. A big one appears to be the longer delivery time on the ERA. Close to a year more.

Regarding the inboard vs the outboard brakes:
If you are building a street car the inboard brakes are fine. I had ERA 626 (inboard brakes) for 17 years and put about 5000 miles on the car on the STREET and NEVER had to change the brake pads and they performed like you would expect from a street car.

If you are going to RACE the car that the outboard brakes are a better choice for sure. But keep in mind the out board brakes will change the offset of your rear wheel slightly.

[patrickt]

One of my favorite things to do is just to lie under my car and stare up at the ERA outboard braked rear. Yep, it's that beautiful.

[sgianino]

Ooops sorry that didnt work, how do i take a photo from my desk top and add to a post?

[nkb]

ERA 626:

You apparently have recently completed your build including a very impressive engine.

Have you started your California registration yet? Interested on how that goes as that remains a concern.

[sgianino]

[nkb]

Originally Posted by sgianino

That outboard disk setup does look good. But, not available for the ERA Slabside (non FIA).

[1795]

You are smart to go with the under car exhaust, saves on burns to the lower legs and is much more gentle on the ears. If you do not drive the car a lot, then changing the inboard brake pads is not much of a concern. Of course with the SPF you can have under car exhaust and outboard brakes...

Seriously though, take your time and do not let anyone pressure you. It's your money, will be your car and you want to be happy with your decision, that is of course after you pull the trigger and then have buyer's remorse, and finally acknowledge that it was the right decision.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 1795

You are smart to go with the under car exhaust, saves on burns to the lower legs and is much more gentle on the ears. If you do not drive the car a lot, then changing the inboard brake pads is not much of a concern.

Ahhh, but when he twists off a differential stub axle doing shots out of the hole with drag slicks it's going to take him days to drop the Jag rear. But with an outboard braked rear, he could have that stubby swapped out on a Saturday afternoon and be ready for a cruise that night.

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Ahhh, but when he twists off a differential stub axle doing shots out of the hole with drag slicks it's going to take him days to drop the Jag rear. But with an outboard braked rear, he could have that stubby swapped out on a Saturday afternoon and be ready for a cruise that night.

With an ERA the entire rear end is in a sub frame like the photos above and can be dropped in a couple hours...

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by nkb

ERA 626:

You apparently have recently completed your build including a very impressive engine.

Have you started your California registration yet? Interested on how that goes as that remains a concern.

Yes I completed the DMV. It was easy PM me there are DMV trolls here.

[patrickt]

I think he's sold now. He should pop the check in the mail tomorrow and he'll sleep better knowing that he's in the queue.

[CSX2345]

Is it possible to equip an ERA 289 Street with the outboard brakes and have the exhaust exit ahead of the rear wheels?

NKB, if you are located in the Bay area, send me a PM and we can meet up with my ERA 289 FIA. It's not a 289 Street but you'll get a sense of what all this ERA praise is about.

Cheers