Kirkham for sale

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by moore_rb

Agree - Once a car is wearing a VIN number that is matched to the VIN number printed on a bonded paper title document, that VIN plate may not be legally tampered with, altered, or removed.

Tampering with a VIN is bad. What was the Oklahoma group that got caught making Shelby Mustangs???

Remember when the 68 GT500s were re-VIN'd to 69? The FBI was present to be positive old VIN plates were completely destroyed and 69 plates attached.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Remember when the 68 GT500s were re-VIN'd to 69? The FBI was present to be positive old VIN plates were completely destroyed and 69 plates attached.

Just a slight correction with the above statement:

Unsold, 1969 Shelbys were, under FBI supervision, were re-vinned as 1970 models. The original 69 VIN stamped into the unibody were not altered, only the VIN tag on the dash, and the removal of the metal drivers door data tag (specifically labeled "not for title or registration"), replaced with a 70 door data tag label (70 was the start of labels). Besides some internal changes in order to pass 70 emissions, the only way to tell the 69 and 70's apart visually was the addition of twin hood stripes, and the 70 Boss 302 style lower front chin spoiler. Look closely at my avatar .

Bill S.

[1985 CCX]

Sweet car however registration could be an issue, insurance issues and also banking issues.

Sort of makes it a cash buy with a roll of the dice on the rest.
I think, we all have an opinion, its a 30-50% hit on value.

Do I see this as not a big deal, yes!
Car has been completely rebuilt, problem is not everyone (state or insurance carrier) may/may not feel the same.

[MOTORHEAD]

MM;
You are correct re; suspension damage. I had totally forgotten about my spin-out after the car was drivable, (but there was no chassis damage from that incedent.)
I thought you were refering to chassis damage from the fire. The rear suspension a arm that was bent was repaired by the fabricator I was working with at the time, and gets checked every time its on the lift,
Also regarding any "birdcage" damage from the fire, there was non, other paint burned off the tubing, allowing rust to start on those members which cleaned off easily. You'll see what I am refering to when the website is back up.

[MOTORHEAD]

MooreRB:
Iwas all set to do BAT, but they wanted me to go lower on my reserve. I did see crazy prices for Cobras, so I thought that might be the way to go, but I already have a bid equal to their desired reserve, so I decided to try Cobra Country first, as I would not be forced to sell when reserve was met.

Ted

[1985 CCX]

Ted

I am glad you are so up front, it makes the sale less of a question.
For me it makes the car more attractive.

[MOTORHEAD]

1985 CCX:
Thanks for your comment.
I didn't buy the Kirkham to fix and flip it. I bought it because I had always wanted one since 1963 when I saw them at the Bridgehampton track.
When I found this Kirkham in 2001, I knew this was my only chance to own the best of all cobra replicas. I have enjoyed the last 20 years of working on it and driving it . (aircraft mechanic by trade) I just turned 80, so it's time to convert her back to money.
I've never regretted the time I've spent bringing her back to life, it'been a once liftime endevor.

Ted

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

Sweet car however registration could be an issue, insurance issues and also banking issues.

Jeff-

Registration issues: Possibly, depending on what state the buyer may want to re-locate the car too (do all the diligence regarding laws, policies and procedures in your home state, up front, for sure)

Insurance issues: I can't imagine. I've purchased agreed-value policies (from Hagerty, among others) on vehicles that had a much sketchier history than this one has had. Getting a legally compliant policy written on this car might take a little extra research, and a few extra phone calls, but it's doable

Banking issues: Agree- Financing this purchase, and using the car as collateral, would probably necessitate going through one of the vintage/collector/boat and auto, venture capital based lenders; which will mean a higher interest rate, but may also offer the flexibility of a longer loan term (some of these smaller specialty lenders will write a 10 year note on some older/specialty cars.) - Again, some extra shopping around, and a few extra phone calls may be required.

There is also the possibility of collateralizing the loan using a HELOC, or some other creative financing.

All good points, for sure; and +1 on Ted's honesty in representing the car as nothing more than what it is- That should inspire confidence, not fear, among prospective buyers.

[patrickt]

Why not buy a new frame from KMS and patiently unbolt every piece of the car and move it over to the new frame? Wouldn't that be a new car to title and register?

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by MOTORHEAD

MooreRB:
Iwas all set to do BAT, but they wanted me to go lower on my reserve. I did see crazy prices for Cobras, so I thought that might be the way to go, but I already have a bid equal to their desired reserve, so I decided to try Cobra Country first, as I would not be forced to sell when reserve was met.

Ted

Yes, the only drawback to a reserve-price auction is that you have to sell if the hammer price exceeds the reserve... However, here are just a couple counter-points to consider (just for conversation's sake):

1) if you had a solid offer in hand that would have exceeded BAT's reserve, then all you would have been looking for was the next highest bid beyond that, right?

I've been a member of BAT for more than 10 years (going all the way back to when BAT truly was a small-potatos auction site catering to "eclectic/niche" car and car parts markets. It has (obviously) grown into what it is today- a powerhouse for heavy 6-figure (and 7 figure) premium cars.

2) Every Cobra auction on BAT will draw more views in one week, than your cobra country listing will bring in a month. I've done the web-traffic stats between the two, and there is no comparison. BAT brings MILLIONS of eyeballs per day. CobraCountry brings thousands per month (some months they crack 10,000).

3) From a confidence perspective (And this is nothing but personal opinion based on my own experience with BAT)- I'm convinced that the BAT bidder population is just about the most sophisticated there is- BAT auctions RARELY end in spectacular deals for the buyer (it does happen, just very occasionally)- Most of the time, BAT auctions end with the car bringing either all the money (and a fair deal to both buyer and seller) or they (for whatever reason) go completely crazy (as the auction for the $67k factory five mark2 roadster did) and the seller gets to whistle, all the way to the bank...

But in the end- Yes, auctions can be extremely stressful for a seller, and you will be dealing with people asking hard, pointed questions (and making sharp, unfiltered commentary) about your car in a public forum, while also having to deal with the "Peanut Gallery" of voices that are going to offer unlimited opinions, without any intention of ever putting their money where their mouth is... all true, and if you don't want to deal with that aggravation, then you probably made the correct choice...

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Why not buy a new frame from KMS and patiently unbolt every piece of the car and move it over to the new frame? Wouldn't that be a new car to title and register?

The VIN plate on a Kirkham is affixed to the body, not the frame. I'm not sure if they stamp the number into the frame as well...?

Regardless: You would need to purchase a new body (wearing a new ID tag)
and possibly a new frame (if they are indeed number-matched), and including a new MCO document from Kirkham for your idea to work...

I'm not sure what Kirkham's legal capability would be to fulfill such a transaction...?

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by moore_rb

The VIN plate on a Kirkham is affixed to the body, not the frame. I'm not sure if they stamp the number into the frame as well...?

Regardless: You would need to purchase a new body (wearing a new ID tag)
and possibly a new frame (if they are indeed number-matched), and including a new MCO document from Kirkham for your idea to work...

I'm not sure what Kirkham's legal capability would be to fulfill such a transaction...?

Kirkham will build you a bare body and frame assembly for whatever use you so desire. With this they will include a MCO/MSO with the chassis number stamped into the frame assembly. Uncertain if the same is stamped anywhere on the body itself, for that I suggest asking David Kirkham directly.

As for the comments above, specifically mine, I do so openly and honestly, with no malice, presumed or otherwise, as this is the "All Talk Cobra" discussion subforum, a place on this website for the open discussion of just about anything cobra related. If this was the classifieds, I would not have spent the time to dive deeper into this car and it's history, nor the hour or two that I spent reviewing the last 10-14 months worth of comparable cars and sales. My mindset towards participating on this thread were easy, discussion is discussion, if the owner/seller (long time, well known/respected on this site) did not want the car discussed, he would have never posted it in this particular subforum, but would have posted within the classifieds section, where such discussion is looked down on.

Regardless, I wish the seller the very best in the sale of this beautiful car.

Bill S.

[MOTORHEAD]

Patrick: Exactly !!!!!!!
Shortly after i bought it, and had talked to both David and Tom, I asked Tom what a new chassis would cost. He said he'd ck on it and let me know. He called next day and says
"we've got some body/chassis here for Shelby that he didn't need, so you could have one of those which would be a CSX vin, for $25 000." I told him I spent all my "mad" money on the purchase of the car , so I'd have to pass. After I hung up, I started thinking that the CSX number would increase the car value and offset the expense.
So the next day I called Tom back to tell him I'd take that deal, and he says "Somehow Shelby got wind of the deal and told them "No way in hell!!!" So close !

Ted

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by MOTORHEAD

Patrick: Exactly !!!!!!!

That's why you respond "I'll wire you the money today, but let's just keep this between the two of us."

[MOTORHEAD]

AS promised, the site is up and running.
'www.tedscobra.com"

It's a bit quirky, the different sections are on different pages

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by MOTORHEAD

AS promised, the site is up and running.
'www.tedscobra.com"

It's a bit quirky, the different sections are on different pages

Those are great pics. That was really a beautiful job of replacing the driver's side fender. The car really is spectacular.

[MOTORHEAD]

Moore RB;
re: BAT, "you hit the nail on the head" as to my reluctance to go that route.
re; reserve. Once reserve is "off", the bidding continues as long as there are more than one bidder. hence such abortions such as the $300 + thousand Datsun 240Z

Ted

[patrickt]

So it took, twelve years to get that girl back on the road?

[MOTORHEAD]

Patrick; I had a business to run at the time, so lots of delays .
For example, the paint was later in the repair time line. The painter told me to take the car home and let the paint cure for a month, then bring it back for a cut&buff. It stayed in the trailer for 2-3 YEARS before i could do it !

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by MOTORHEAD

Patrick; I had a business to run at the time, so lots of delays .
For example, the paint was later in the repair time line. The painter told me to take the car home and let the paint cure for a month, then bring it back for a cut&buff. It stayed in the trailer for 2-3 YEARS before i could do it !

Alright. And I thought ERA's delivery times were bad....