What Is The Future of The Cobra Replica Industry?

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by eschaider

The wife has had two Tesla's and the charging performance of the two is noticeably different. The first had an 85KW battery and the second has a 100 KW battery. The installer set our home charger for a charging amperage of 64 AMPS. The charger was attached to a 240V 200 AMP service. I asked why he chose 64 AMPS and got an unintelligible answer. I asked if a 200 amp service would support the top 80 amp charging available on the unit. The answer was a clear yes. When I asked him to use the 80 amp setting, we were again back to the unintelligible communication mode of operation.

I used it at the 64 amp setting for a month or so and was not particularly impressed with charging speed. I elected to open the wall unit and reset the controls for 80 amp service — big difference in time to charge. Instead of a nearly all-night charge time, it dropped to done by about 3 AM or so with an 11:30 PM start time.

When she got the new Tesla, even with the service on the wall device set to 80 amps, the car would only use 72 amps and the charge time predictably was proportionally longer.

The highly touted gas savings that EV vehicles provide is not as significant as it seems pre-purchase. Until gas prices went crazy, my 520HP BMW only ran about $150 to $190 per month — about $2000 or so for a yearly high water mark. With Biden's gasoline pricing, that is obviously different, but with normal gasoline pricing, the fuel cost incentive to buy an electric vehicle is simply not there.

While Tesla has significantly improved the driving experience with respect to vehicle handling since the early vehicles, it is still not what the BMW is, and the fit, finish, and creature comforts of the BMW far exceed the TESLA. At least as of right now, a dollar spent on a non-electric vehicle buys you a better driving experience at a small (pre-Biden) increase in fuel cost than the same dollar spent on an EV. Even with the post-Biden gasoline pricing, the non-EV alternative still looks pretty good to me.

Parting thought, an interesting observation about car performance, the Tesla is close but not quite an even match for the BMW from a dead stop. From a roll like you might experience, passing on the highway, there is no comparison. The BMW wins, hands down.

From a creature comfort, performance, and cost of operation perspective, EVs are close but not quite there yet.

Mainstream EV's are still at a stage of relative infancy. The fact that one of the pioneering examples in the luxury sedan segment is a close comparison ( if not superior in some aspects) to the best and most evolved of IC vehicles speaks volumes about their potential. As for the dollar to dollar comparison, the move away from IC powered vehicles was never exclusively about making transportation cheaper. There's a plausible expectation that they will get there with ongoing development and technological advances, but it will take time. I'm fully convinced that vehicles will continue to evolve to the point that our current flagship IC powered cars will seem clunky and primitive by every measure (except maybe nostalgic appeal) in contrast.

[jhv48]

I don’t know about the rest of you guys, but the only thing missing from electric vehicles is THE NOISE.
I don’t care how fast they are. Without the noise of pistons, valves, belts, and thousands of explosions per second, I’m not interested in them OTHER THAN to provide around town boring commuting.

[Buzz]

Tesla Model X Plaid family SUV vs. $304K Lambo EVO. I can understand missing the noise - but a heavy family friendly kid, dog and grocery hauler waving bye bye to one of the most in-your-face and iconic supercars on the planet? I'm sure the Lambo owner found that boring as hell!

Imagine what we'll see when they decide to make a serious performance car.

IC car sound engineers have been feeding us carefully tuned, simulated and enhanced engine and exhaust notes for years now. So why not just dial up your soundtrack of choice when you set your driving mode on the touch screen? Flat-plane crank? Big block V8? Maybe even Def Leppard or Beethoven's 5th - take your pick and engage warp drive -woohoo!

https://youtu.be/L8WifYxxfOI?t=132

Edit - I just actually watched the video right through. Nice sounds for sure from the Huracan. The Tesla was silent inside but I'm sure if you cracked the windows a bit accelerating to 144 mph, the G forces and wind noise would make it sound and feel like an F-14 hitting the afterburners on a carrier launch.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Tesla Model X Plaid family SUV vs. $304K Lambo EVO. I can understand missing the noise - but a heavy family friendly kid, dog and grocery hauler waving bye bye to one of the most in-your-face and iconic supercars on the planet? I'm sure the Lambo owner found that boring as hell!

Imagine what we'll see when they decide to make a serious performance car.

IC car sound engineers have been feeding us carefully tuned, simulated and enhanced engine and exhaust notes for years now. So why not just dial up your soundtrack of choice when you set your driving mode on the touch screen? Flat-plane crank? Big block V8? Maybe even Def Leppard or Beethoven's 5th - take your pick and engage warp drive -woohoo!

https://youtu.be/L8WifYxxfOI?t=132

Edit - I just actually watched the video right through. Nice sounds for sure from the Huracan. The Tesla was silent inside but I'm sure if you cracked the windows a bit accelerating to 144 mph, the G forces and wind noise would make it sound and feel like an F-14 hitting the afterburners on a carrier launch.

So a fake exhaust with no engine feel is exciting to you. Be my guest.

[patrickt]

FWIW, a new Jeep Cherokee supercharged TrackHawk will beat most of our Cobras in stoplight drag competitions even with a little old lady behind the wheel. With 700+ horsepower and launch control all she's got to do is just punch it and hold the wheel straight. Plus, she can tow me home when I twist off my half-shafts trying to keep up out of the hole. https://www.jeep.com/grand-cherokee/performance.html

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

So a fake exhaust with no engine feel is exciting to you. Be my guest.

No. An SUV doing 0-60 under 3 seconds with a 144 mph quarter mile trap speed is exciting to me. Every current Mustang, Camaro or whatever you choose has an enhanced and "tuned" exhaust note. Be my ... ah never mind

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by patrickt

FWIW, a new Jeep Cherokee supercharged TrackHawk will beat most of our Cobras in stoplight drag competitions even with a little old lady behind the wheel. With 700+ horsepower and launch control all she's got to do is just punch it and hold the wheel straight. Plus, she can tow me home when I twist off my half-shafts trying to keep up out of the hole. https://www.jeep.com/grand-cherokee/performance.html

I hope you don't find old ladies in Jeeps exciting fordracing65 might invite you to be his guest.

[Tommy]

I don't claim my perspective is right for anyone but me, but when people asked me what I liked about my Cobra I didn't say anything about the speed, acceleration, braking, turning performance or comfort. I described it as a total sensory experience. Every sense was engaged by vibrations, heat from the engine, odors, noise from the sidepipes, wind, hot or cold depending on the weather, an unobstructed 360 degree view of the world, and the knowledge that it might kill me in an instant if I ever took it for granted. The car always had more potential performance than me, and much of my joy came from trying to get better as a driver at the track. . . . So, would I enjoy driving a modern performance car that is safe, quiet and requires virtually no driving skill from me? Sure, but its not what I'd want if I wanted to engage all of my senses behind the wheel of a car from my youth. Those are very different cars for very different purposes.

[Buzz]

Well said Tommy. After owning and driving a Cobra almost daily for several years, the visceral impact on the senses makes just about any other car seem bland by comparison. That however doesn't stop me from appreciating (and being excited about) the levels of performance that new cars are bringing to the table. Do I still love old high compression big-block muscle cars? Oh yes - but I can also appreciate and be excited by the staggering performance capability of the current IC, hybrid and full-on electric vehicles. I guess I just like cars, period, and don't care much about clinging to the past or the comforting security blanket of days long gone by.

I think often about my original dream car - a '74 Trans Am with a hopped up 455 and a 3 speed THM 400 transmission. I loved that car and its brutal acceleration but I always wished it had longer legs, better brakes, handling and overall quality. It was six years old when I bought it and those big heavy doors were already sagging on the hinges, rust spots were blooming and some little Japanese cars with 5 speed transmissions could outpace me on the open highway. My disdain for anything newer than 1974 eventually gave way to reality. Cars got better and faster and better handling. Same thing happening today. I'll always love Cobras but I can absolutely appreciate - and be excited about - the awesome potential that newer technology brings to today's performance cars.

[Harpoon PV2]

You young whipper snappers and your infernal combustion engines! Besides scaring old Nellie every time you pass me, they are loud, smell bad, and when you go to start them, they will brake you wrist clean in half! No sir re bob, there just a passing fad! Cheers, Dennis

[Alfa02]

Do I understand "Quick" Electric cars, sure. Do I want one, "Not yet" maybe when they have to Hoyer Lift me in & out of the Cobra, beside I still can hear the Cobra pipes even after listening to Rock & Roll @11 my whole life. I'm only 67yo, maybe when I get old, The Cobra seems to keep me young for now

[PDUB]

Originally Posted by Tommy

I don't claim my perspective is right for anyone but me, but when people asked me what I liked about my Cobra I didn't say anything about the speed, acceleration, braking, turning performance or comfort. I described it as a total sensory experience. Every sense was engaged by vibrations, heat from the engine, odors, noise from the sidepipes, wind, hot or cold depending on the weather, an unobstructed 360 degree view of the world, and the knowledge that it might kill me in an instant if I ever took it for granted. The car always had more potential performance than me, and much of my joy came from trying to get better as a driver at the track. . . . So, would I enjoy driving a modern performance car that is safe, quiet and requires virtually no driving skill from me? Sure, but its not what I'd want if I wanted to engage all of my senses behind the wheel of a car from my youth. Those are very different cars for very different purposes.

well said, Tommy!

[eschaider]

The wife's current Tesla is three and a half years old. As they did between her first and second cars, they have continued to improve the car. That said, notwithstanding the impressive performance they deliver, Tommy's perspective, I think, reflects how a lot of us feel about these matters.

Can I beat one of the new Teslas — very likely, no! Does the 'total sensory experience,' as Tommy named it, in an EV satisfy my driving needs? Not near as well as in the equivalent gasoline-fueled performance car. That 'total sensory experience,' as Tommy calls it, is the secret sauce most of us are looking for in our attitude adjustment machinery. So far it is lacking in the electric alternatives.

The other noticeable difference is the fit, finish, and plushness (is that a word?) of creature comforts in the passenger cabin provided with the gasoline-fueled alternatives, Cobra's obviously not inculded. The gas-fueled manufacturers have got that set of attributes well thought out.

Cobra's are a whole different experience. If Hemingway were alive today, I am confident he would use a Cobra to exemplify the second of his only three real sports, Mountain Climbing, Motor Racing and Bull Fighting. He considered all other sports to be merely games.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by patrickt

FWIW, a new Jeep Cherokee supercharged TrackHawk will beat most of our Cobras in stoplight drag competitions even with a little old lady behind the wheel. With 700+ horsepower and launch control all she's got to do is just punch it and hold the wheel straight. Plus, she can tow me home when I twist off my half-shafts trying to keep up out of the hole. https://www.jeep.com/grand-cherokee/performance.html

What more fun to drive. A cobra. Or a trackhawk. I think we all know the answer. Cobra are fun to drive who cares if they are not the fastest car in the road. No other car feels like a cobra. FACT.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

What more fun to drive. A cobra. Or a trackhawk. I think we all know the answer. Cobra are fun to drive who cares if they are not the fastest car in the road. No other car feels like a cobra. FACT.

Put a Trackhawk beside a Cobra at a gas pump or show and shine - which do you think will get more attention?

[saki302]

The joy of my cobra is, used, nothing can touch it for what I have in it.. maybe 50k with repairs and upgrades.
What can come close at that price point? Almost nothing. Maybe a modded c5 z06, but without the head turning and driving joy (I had a c5 z06 before).

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by saki302

Maybe a modded c5 z06, but without the head turning and driving joy (I had a c5 z06 before).

You might enjoy this very old video of my Cobra and a Z06.

[Buzz]

I don't think anyone (not me anyway) is trying to say that EV's are "better" than Cobras, particularly as measured by the criteria that drew most of us to Cobras in the first place. The looks, the sound and the raw, elemental nature put the Cobra in a class of its own, period. In terms of attention grabbing - that's something I really don't care about - but it's also true. That attention is not always positive though, depending on the audience or where you live. I remember one new Cobra owner here on CC recounting his dismay when he drove slowly by a big group of people at some lakeside event and was greeted with derisive comments and a bunch of kids running alongside and behind him shouting "kit car, kit car" - no doubt egged on by the adults. Not the sort of attention he was hoping for.

Originally Posted by eschaider

The other noticeable difference is the fit, finish, and plushness (is that a word?) of creature comforts in the passenger cabin provided with the gasoline-fueled alternatives, Cobra's obviously not inculded. The gas-fueled manufacturers have got that set of attributes well thought out.

Your comments carry weight because you have hands-on familiarity with both Cobras and Teslas, but I have to reiterate my point earlier that the Tesla is an infant in the market compared to its competition in the luxury car segment and the fact that its even in the ballpark is admirable. The other thing is that those same giants dominating the segment - Mercedes/AMG , BMW, Audi, Cadillac, etc. - will all release electric versions of their flagship luxury performance models and I doubt that they'll pale in fit/finish, quality or panache compared to their IC fueled siblings.They will make less noise though.

Cobras and luxury EV sedans and SUV's are so completely different in execution and intended purpose that comparing them against each other is just silly. Only someone who bought their Cobra solely to be the quickest stoplight to stoplight warrior in town - and those folks are out there - would trade in a Cobra for a Tesla but poo-pooing EV's as crap because the driving experience is different comes across as petty, weak and fearful of change.

They're coming like it or not and sometime soon, some seriously fast and yes - exciting - electric cars will be scorching the asphalt with unprecedented levels of performance and capability. C8 Corvette E-Rays are running around in camo wraps already and some manufacturer will inevitably unleash a stripped-down, all-out performance-focused EV that might try to become the Cobra equivalent of modern cars. Will it shake and rumble, stink of gas and make you shyte your pants at speed with manual controls and scary brakes and handling dynamics? Not likely - but I personally can't wait to see something like that hit the streets.

Back to the future of the Cobra replica industry - I still think because Cobras remain so outright and in-your-face different from the the humming, whooshing relative sterility of EV's; they'll become even more iconic of what many will consider the golden age of automobilia and partly because of that, the industry will survive. The hobby may shrink and become even more of a niche pastime but I don't think Cobra replicas or people who'll buy them will be going away anytime soon.

[sunman]

The EV West Tesla motor is a complete drop in replacement with small block Chevy mounts and driveshaft yoke.
500 hp and 800 ft lbs instant power.
The Superformance version is over engineered and expense puts it in a different market.
Hurricane and don’t forget Classic Roadsters (reduced price) are for sale.
Build and sell 325/year or less turnkey cars using an electric motor and you answer to nobody.
No safety or emissions regulations. Just don’t call it a Cobra.
It probably won’t be these brands but it’s going to happen, it’s the path of least resistance.

[jhv48]

I question the word “exciting” when attached to electric vehicles. Yes they can be incredibly fast, but exciting? Not so sure about that.
Consider this: how exciting would top fuel drag races be without the noise of those massive hemi engines on the edge of grenading?
How exciting would nascar races be without the noise? How exciting would F-1 or Indy car races be if they were silent?
I know I’ve lost interest in F-1 since they swapped the high revving normally aspirated engines for turbocharged engines. When they flew by at 19,000 rpm, the screaming engines would give me chills. Swap to electric engines, I won’t watch.
As for our noisy, smelly scary cobras, electrify them and they become as exciting as a Prius to me, no matter how fast they are.
And, yes, ev’s have their place and they are the future, I just don’t think a self driving silent car is exciting. And I want excitement in my vehicles. Millennials want non-involvement and self driving vehicles so they can spend more time on their phones. I want total involvement in my driving experience and the cobra does just that.
Just one guy’s opinion.