460 to 351 conversion

Crateguy · #1 (**permalink**) 12-02-2022, 05:21 PM

Currently have a 460 installed but I’m tired of fighting the heat issues with this motor. I can get a newly built 351 Cleveland to install but I’m wondering if anyone on here has ever done this. My main concern is engine mounts. Will I need to weld in some new ones or is there a converter of some type out there?

Jim Vander Wal · #2 (**permalink**) 12-02-2022, 06:29 PM

I'd guess that a lot of the details of this project depend on the car mfg / chassis. This will probably have a lot to do with what you can change or how easy it will be.

Then headers, accessory drives, bell housings, driveshafts, radiator configurations and most anything that attaches to the old engine that may need be adapt to the new.

Good luck!

Jim

jknich · #3 (**permalink**) 12-02-2022, 09:01 PM

Jim, Check out this 400m build from Tim Meyer. Same bellhousing as 460, not sure of the mounts.

http://www.tmeyerinc.com/412hp_500tq/

eschaider · #4 (**permalink**) 12-03-2022, 12:56 PM

There are any number of guys on the site here that run big inch FE's and 385 series engines w/o a heat build up problem. You might want to check your tune and your cooling system.

Properly tuned with a working cooling system you should find no problem cooling your 460. If the car is running lean and/or your cooling system is compromised then you will experience a heating problem.

When it comes time to tune the engine you can take somebody's tune up tip of the week and hope for the best or you can go to a dyno and have them properly tune your 460. If you go to the dyno be sure to let the dyno operator know you are tuning for drivability not max horsepower. You might get both but the driveability and coolant temp control is what you are after not race car power. In a 2300/2400 pound car a properly tuned 460 will give you more than you care for in the performance column.

The reduced weight on the front end that you will realize with the 351 will enhance your car's handling so that is something to consider also.

40k Later · #5 (**permalink**) 12-03-2022, 01:14 PM

Fluidyne 5 Core Cobra radiator and a shrouded Taurus/Lincoln fan may solve your overheating. It did on my 460 and I was at the selling point. Fluidyne FHP35 was a game changer and I live in Phoenix.

https://www.fluidyne.com/products/fh...cobra-radiator

Mr Barnwood · #6 (**permalink**) 12-06-2022, 11:18 PM

Before I bagged my 460 I would check my cooling system, I have a 427 Sideoiler and even in sunny California it never overheats, generally running about 195 degrees. I have nothing exotic , just two pusher fans and a good radiator.

767Jockey · #7 (**permalink**) 12-07-2022, 06:16 AM

Unless you have some insane 460 in there with 1000hp+, you should be able to cool it. Changing the engine because you have a cooling issue is like killing flies with a shotgun, it's way overkill for the issue. I have a 750HP, 520" FE and after some initial cooling issues I got it under control. As 40K Later mentioned above, I have a Fluidyne radiator as well. That, coupled with a proper thermostat, a proper tune, and the highest flow puller fan you can fit in there, and perhaps most importantly a very tightly sealed shroud, should take care of all but the most extreme engines. The highest flow fans I have heard about come from Ford Taurus and Lincoln Mark 8 cars. They move an extreme amount of air. You can buy them new with a shroud for a fairly reasonsnble price on RockAuto and other places. You can also look in junkyards but I've read that because the fans are so popular most are already picked clean out there.

It would absolutely be cheaper and easier to fix your cooling problem than to swap engines. You're looking at welding in new engine mounts, a new bellhousing, getting new headers fabbed up, and a myriad of other issues in an engine swap such as this. That's a ton more work and money than a radiator and fan swap and a tune. In my case I didn't have room behind the radiator for the Taurus fan. I have a custom aluminum shroud that I had built and a Spal fan and it works. I had all that completed just as the worst heat of the Houston summer had passed, but so far it's working well for me. Once the heat of the Houston summer hits next year, if the Spal doesn't cut it, I'm going to go with one of these: https://deltapag.com/ I have every confidence that I have my issue licked, but if not the delta pag fan will be the final bolt in step in the process.

I understand your frustration with the cooling issue. At times it can be frustrating to the point of resignation, which seems to be where you're ay now. I get it. However, the right combo of radiator, fan and tune can cure almost all but the most extreme issues. Big fan, proper thermostat, correct tune, big radiator and a very well sealed shroud can cure almost all cooling ills. Your engine swap proposal is difficult and costly, the proper cooling system mods as outlined here are multiples easier and cheaper. Good luck!

eschaider · #8 (**permalink**) 12-07-2022, 06:47 PM

Those DeltaPag fans are nothing short of stunning, Doug. Two of their 12 inch fans (which are pretty small) flow 4400 cfm! You have to keep women, kids and small dogs away from the front of the car when they are on!

Their most impressive attribute is that they are brushless, which means they essentially last forever.

767Jockey · #9 (**permalink**) 12-07-2022, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaider

Those DeltaPag fans are nothing short of stunning, Doug. Two of their 12 inch fans (which are pretty small) flow 4400 cfm! You have to keep women, kids and small dogs away from the front of the car when they are on!

Their most impressive attribute is that they are brushless, which means they essentially last forever.

I agree, Ed. Once we're back in the 100's here in Houston, If I'm still running hot that's the direction I'll go. They move a LOT of air.

jknich · #10 (**permalink**) 12-07-2022, 08:16 PM

The Volvo fan is also popular.

https://www.therangerstation.com/tec...c-cooling-fan/

cycleguy55 · #11 (**permalink**) 12-08-2022, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crateguy

Currently have a 460 installed but I’m tired of fighting the heat issues with this motor. I can get a newly built 351 Cleveland to install but I’m wondering if anyone on here has ever done this. My main concern is engine mounts. Will I need to weld in some new ones or is there a converter of some type out there?

You haven't posted this elsewhere, so we have no idea what you mean by "heat issues". Perhaps more details could help in diagnosing and resolving the issues.

As pointed out by others, there are many running 385 series engines without major "heat issues", so I have no doubt they can be resolved without the heavy lifting (literally and figuratively) of changing to a different engine type.

Regardless, I'd spend some time reading through these tech tips for some guidance on where to turn. https://www.stewartcomponents.com/in...formation_id=6

We don't know what you've tried so far to resolve your "heat issues" but, FWIW, I've seen many threads on various Ford 460 forums or Facebook groups and by far the vast majority of respondents have no idea what they're talking about. They almost universally jump into 'solution mode' without bothering to gather basic information or understanding. Most of their suggestions are pure garbage, founded on folklore - or both.

Picking up the phone and getting assistance from someone familiar with cooling high performance engines is probably not a bad idea. If you have a recognized expert you can actually meet with and who could check out your car that would be even better.