Interesting "old" aluminum recreation

[Harpoon PV2]

Funny thing, Carrol Shelby claimed he had the original MKIII bucks and jigs, and Brian Angeles claimed he did! That is part of what makes the whole Cobra legend so entertaining! Cheers, Dennis

[eschaider]

Many of us have seen this movie before, some of us more than once.

We all know how it ends and I suspect this version of the movie has the same ending. Like Bill observed, "the story and back story of the owner just keeps changing, and getting better and better, as if a worm was stuck on a hook with a fish staring at it just inches away, or a carrot was being dangled in front of a large donkey who has not eaten in days."

This is just another fabricated Cobra story that is being promulgated through well intentioned, uninformed people and the internet with no basis in fact.

[Alfa02]

So right there the owner has told 3-lie's, the car was never @ Pebble Beach, and Never won people's Choice award there. The jigs, frames, and body parts were never outside the AC plant. As Bill said, every time it's a different story, wonder why that is? If any of this is true, I would imagine by now you have checked out his stories about his Cobra history (Pictures, serial#'s of his Cobras, race results?) You said: 'From what I've seen' they look like extremally good replica's, what did you see to make that statement?

[1985 CCX]

So AC in 80's (Brian A) did make MKIII and MKIV. Brian did both, only the MKIV was different (beefed up) as it was necessary to pass 1980's DOT as these went through Ford dealers. Brian, like Shelby, did whatever you wanted to pay for.

Brian was making restoration parts for originals in that time period too. If these were discarded AC items they were connected to Brian A in some way.
Not sure they were usable if Angliss tossed out. He was not crammed for space, he had the room and would not have tossed items like trash as he paid for them. (or Ford did)

Ah the stories, sounds like the guy is trying to connect AC to Shelby. Sounds like BS.

[Alfa02]

As in your post #9, about these Cobra replicas were built to be raced alongside the "Real Comp Cobras" quote is total BS. There is NO WAY, any sanctioning body (Vintage racing) would allow these repops Cobras out on the same track with an org. Cobra, especially during the early days (80's-90"s) of Vintage Racing. I have a feeling, he was going to pass these cars off, as his org. Cobras. So, if he crashed one, no BIG loss, it's been tried before (They have always been caught ). Hopefully other people (Racers, in his group) got wind of this, and he was stopped in his tracks, if nothing else, that story would make the most sense.

[PanameraPat]

Another mistake on my part. Owner had worked with Tom Kirkham on a previous original, not David. Sorry guys. I'm learning......... But honestly don't really know what I am talking about yet. Slowly figuring the details out........

[PanameraPat]

Probably best we just let this thread rest guys. Out of all the comments, I really didn't learn anything in particular to look for on the cars when I go see them in person. So while I did learn a lot about everyone's opinion about replica's (and one legit comment about value), I'm not really any smarter about what to look for on the cars when I see them in person. I know the basic's of what the frame, body and interior should look like, but knew those things before I joined.

I have seen some pics of the cars and saw them in person about 20 years ago, so that is why I have a general idea of what to expect. But back then, really had no idea what I was looking at. Not much smarter today............. Was hoping this group would be helpful. But the only real advise I feel like I got was "walk away and don't even bother looking under the curtain". Maybe sage advise....... But I was more looking for specific details of WHAT to look for when I see the cars in person. Thanks anyway.

[1985 CCX]

Pics are worth a 1000 posts......
What to look for?
If its a race car, sidepipes. Compare to: https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0822-52...etition-cobra/
Print the pictures, compare one for one.
Simple as that.

[eschaider]

Ahhh, the saga continues. Now begins the search for redemption and forgiveness ...

The movie's ending, however, will remain unchanged.

[PanameraPat]

Thanks 1985 CCX. You're clearly a pro who knows these cars. Appreciate your help!!

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by PanameraPat

Another mistake on my part. Owner had worked with Tom Kirkham on a previous original, not David. Sorry guys. I'm learning......... But honestly don't really know what I am talking about yet. Slowly figuring the details out........

Originally Posted by PanameraPat

Probably best we just let this thread rest guys. Out of all the comments, I really didn't learn anything in particular to look for on the cars when I go see them in person. So while I did learn a lot about everyone's opinion about replica's (and one legit comment about value), I'm not really any smarter about what to look for on the cars when I see them in person. I know the basic's of what the frame, body and interior should look like, but knew those things before I joined.

I have seen some pics of the cars and saw them in person about 20 years ago, so that is why I have a general idea of what to expect. But back then, really had no idea what I was looking at. Not much smarter today............. Was hoping this group would be helpful. But the only real advise I feel like I got was "walk away and don't even bother looking under the curtain". Maybe sage advise....... But I was more looking for specific details of WHAT to look for when I see the cars in person. Thanks anyway.

The problem we as a group have, is that you have not given anything in which to guide you on. There are plenty of replicas out there that you as the inexperienced individual, cannot differentiate from a true original. Plenty of quality home builders who have gone down this path, with hand beat, aluminum bodies, some of which are absolutely beautiful works of art, others that are abominations. Throw a spray bomb to cover bad welds, or a shiny paint job over aluminum with an inch or more of bondo sculpted over it to create a smoother body shape, and unfortunately, people get sucked in to the "I better buy this at a price too good to be true, before someone else finds out about it" mindset. Over the years, I've seen brilliant people waste their money on such deals...At least you came here first, hoping to find an easy way to educate yourself as to the differences, unfortunately, there is nothing easy about reviewing a Cobra, real, replica, or everything in between. The quality of the build, the quality of the parts, the quality of the design, and especially the execution by the owner. Again, plenty of people are friendly with those of us who can work wonders with our hands, but that friendship, or their racing history, does not always equate to them being able to change a light bulb, let alone put a car together safely.

So, with that said, start with the basics, forget about stories being told to you, or 20+ year old pictures or personal recollections. Get a hands on view of what you are looking at, then take well lit pictures, then post them here with a basic description of what you are showing us, and we can then attempt to guide you into making the right choices with your hard earned funds.

Bill S.

[PanameraPat]

Thanks Bill. All makes sense. I made the bad assumption that there would be a half dozen items that are always correct on original's and high quality replica's and pretty much always wrong on cheaper lower quality replica's. Things that the experienced folks always look for first type thing.

The car actually resides at a very high quality race car rebuilder (multi million $$ stuff), but he mainly specializes in Ferrari's and I am guessing he doesn't know much about replica Cobra's. I asked him about it and all he said was "it's a replica. A good replica, but a replica".

If it looks good when I see it, I'll get some good pics and/or dig up a local expert to help me judge it. I do confess that getting a straight story out of the owner is challenging and my interpretation of what he tells me is certainly subject to the judgement it got, so all good. If I really had any confidence that I knew what I was talking about, I wouldn't be here "getting schooled".

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by PanameraPat

Thanks Bill. All makes sense. I made the bad assumption that there would be a half dozen items that are always correct on original's and high quality replica's and pretty much always wrong on cheaper lower quality replica's. Things that the experienced folks always look for first type thing.

The car actually resides at a very high quality race car rebuilder (multi million $$ stuff), but he mainly specializes in Ferrari's and I am guessing he doesn't know much about replica Cobra's. I asked him about it and all he said was "it's a replica. A good replica, but a replica".

If it looks good when I see it, I'll get some good pics and/or dig up a local expert to help me judge it. I do confess that getting a straight story out of the owner is challenging and my interpretation of what he tells me is certainly subject to the judgement it got, so all good. If I really had any confidence that I knew what I was talking about, I wouldn't be here "getting schooled".

So now it's not in a dusty garage, but at a high end Ferrari shop? For all you know it could be a MG with a Cobra body on it, or a AC Bristol converted to a Shelby nose, or a Contemporary Cobra replica, which had a nice 4" round tube frame, or it could be a lesser brand, with the same. I've seen some beautiful replicas built for under 40K, and some horrible replicas built with 250K invested. Since the car is at a shop, what seems to be the problem in stopping in and getting a few pictures? Seems to be that would be step one on your possible journey.

At this point in time, you have reached your personal knowledge saturation point. Now it's time for you to help yourself, so we can then help you.

Bill S.

[Alfa02]

As Jeff & Bill stated, Pictures are worth a 1000posts. I don't see what the problem is. It's at a High Quality race shop, they have a hoist, push the car over to hoist, raise it in the air, and take pictures (Chassis, engine, trans, rear end, int. body, gauges, serial #. or #'s, and anything else they deem helpful), have them send you the pictures, then you send them here, Easy Peasy. Now are we talking about just the 'Black Cherry' car, I thought there were 2 built? Also, are you looking for a price to pay, to keep the car or just flip? I don't think any of us understand what you want to do with the car. Any Cobra that has been sitting for 20+ years, you're looking at tens of thousands of dollars just to freshen it up, to make it safe to drive again. For sure it will need, brakes, seals, gaskets, belts, hoses, and God know what else. We are here to help, but we have no ammo (Info) to go off of Just stories.

[PanameraPat]

Who said it was in a dusty garage? Haha. Not me! I did say it is not in the same town as me, which is why I haven't "stopped in" yet.

There are two cars. Seller might consider selling one of them at this time. No discussion of $$. As you guys pointed out, I haven't even seen the cars recently, so no point in getting serious until I get a fresh look. My guess is they are buried in the back of the shop and maybe on storage lift's, which is why I haven't asked the shop to dig them out until I can get there and see in person. Clearly, I am in no rush..... I'll try to get there in the next month or so and get some pics. He's not actively trying to sell them, so no panic. They haven't moved in 20 years, so I don't think they are going to move in the next few months.

Like I said before, I just figured there would be some obvious things to look for that you guys would point me toward. Understand now that there probably isn't anything that obvious beyond what I already knew to look for, so thanks again for the advise. Ultimately my goal is to determine quality of the replica and if they are very well done replica, try to put a reasonable market value on it. If they are super nice and I have a reasonable guess about fair market value, then I can have an educated discussion with the owner about possibly purchasing one of them (likely the Black Cherry one). Not to flip, but to keep.

[Alfa02]

You said "Buried" in storage for 20+years, your Quote (Not ours) in post #4. With your last post #35, I can tell, you're not on your way to making any new friends, or anymore help. Ha Ha. Indeed.

[PanameraPat]

Yes, I said they are "buried" in storage. I guess I didn't realize that meant "dusty garage". I still believe they are "buried" in storage (at the shop, that has a bunch of cars there). That does not mean dusty garage IMHO.

As for friends or more help, I think I can tell the good guys from the bad here. And I do appreciate the helpful comments.

Regardless, it looks like I have what I am going to get for now. So as was stated, I'll just have to get over there and see what I see. Even if they turn out to be crappy replica's, I'm pretty sure I'll see some cool stuff at the shop, so worth the trip regardless. Ya all be safe now........

[patrickt]

I think it could be a Christmas wish come true. A heretofore undiscovered "almost original" 427 car with just the right bells and whistles and a lineage that eventually will prove true. Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus and yes, Alfa02, this is a real Cobra.

[Alfa02]

Patrickt, your enthusiasm is never ending Wait, I hear a Bell ringing, an Angel just got her win...... Never mind it was just my Microwave. Thank Goodness, you're around to keep us all Grounded Merry Christmas & Happy New Year, Cheers Tom.

[PanameraPat]