A Cobra Valuation question

[Buzz]

Who cares what his involvement is beyond what he's already stated? Just because he asks a question here about a CSX car he has to submit to a friggin' colonoscopy? What are we - a Cobra forum or Nancy Drew?

[HTM101]

1985 CCX and Buzz offered very good responses to STLUCIE's request.

Then the usual protagonists stepped in and the surgery began. Next STLUCIE dug in and managed to amp up the protagonists' evisceration.

The thread could have been educational.

[patrickt]

Hmmm, it's almost like someone set about to fire off one carefully crafted post solely designed to create a series of chain branching reactions.

[Buzz]

And here's me thinking you were just injecting some sound, pertinent legal perspective to the discussion. Gawd I'm slow!

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Hmmm, it's almost like someone set about to fire off one carefully crafted post solely designed to create a series of chain branching reactions.

Your welcome


Bill S.

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by Buzz

I really don't get the mean girl mob mentality that sometimes crops up on forums. Not really referring to any one person in particular but more of a general group direction some of these threads tend to adopt. Most here are good guys that I genuinely like and respect for their knowledge and character (even patrickt ) But a person comes here respectfully and politely asking for information that is in abundance here and instead of happily discussing the cars we all love, it largely devolves into speculation about his motives and territorial attacks on his character. I believe in solidarity and sticking with the team and all that, but I just can't bring myself to be a part of that. I despise the term "bullying" - to me it implies weakness when used; but I can't think of a better word for what I see happening in this thread. Sorry guys - maybe it's just me - carry on.

Good points and well made Buzz. That not withstanding, Mr. Lucie does not behave like a professional gathering data. While some of his responses ask for fact or clarification others are simply intended to stir up argument. It is the arguing part that I think belies a different motivation.

I am suspect that what we have here is not an investigation (for whatever purpose) and instead a more sophisticated and argumentative newbie getting his jollies running us through hoops attempting to help him when all he wants is to forment the fodder of argument.

Real research will typically use written documentation that predates the research effort to validate the argument being presented. That is not the case here. Patrick made a great observation in his post #35. If I were the opposing counsel I would certainly table the argument that Patrick presented so clearly.

Go back and read some of this guy's posts and a different image begins to emerge. He is not doing research! He is simply finding a site of enthusiasts and toying with them in a sadistic sort of fashion. I really think as a group we ought to simply ignore this jerk and allow him to go away and torment some other site.

[Alfa02]

I tend to agree with Ed here, Jeff pretty much answered his question about the cars, on the first post. Yes, Buzz, we as a group here, we all earned our stripes, and because of that we tend to stick together when one or two are singled out. We even cover Patrickt ass, because he's one of us, and we all know how PatrickT can be He said he isn't being paid, or is it YET, till settlement time? Doing this out of the kindness of his heart I have a (feeling) he's back with us because "He's burnt his bridges" with others. I say let's call it quits with this guy before we have "Hurt Feeling" among our group. We're all we have Cheers Tom.

[Buzz]

I didn't really get that impression from the OP - he seemed to remain basically polite even when pushing back - but then again I was only interested in the Cobra related part of the discussion. Patrickt's pithy synopsis drew a bit of a push back and it was somewhat punchy, but that's just part of the fun with paddy's posts and not what I was referring to. No need to cover pat's butt - he dishes it out but he can take as good as he gives.

[STLUCIE]

Originally Posted by HTM101

1985 CCX and Buzz offered very good responses to STLUCIE's request.

Then the usual protagonists stepped in and the surgery began. Next STLUCIE dug in and managed to amp up the protagonists' evisceration.

The thread could have been educational.

Thank you. I don't mind answering the trolls because among them are folks who actually want to talk about Cobras.

Again, I am an appraiser who has been working for the original owners of CSX3145. They are pursuing a Loss of Use case. I prepared my appraisal last year and was deposed afterward. The adverse party's expert was also recently deposed. Their expert had the following notions that I will ask about for the umpteenth time. For those folks looking for some secret agenda or have a problem with my putting them in their place, why not just sit the rest of this discussion out? It has never been my intention to "eviscerate" people but when you are punched in the face for no good reason, most of us tend to punch back.

1) Regarding "historical significance", I am of the opinion that all of the 998 Cobras built fall into this category. That there is a Cobra registry accentuates that point. Is there anything to the notion that only raced Cobras have historical significance?

2) Are the non-raced 289 Cobras more desirable than the 427 Cobras?

3) The narrow-hip Cobras are rarer but are they typically less (or more) sought after?

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

Thank you. I don't mind answering the trolls because among them are folks who actually want to talk about Cobras.

Again, I am an appraiser who has been working for the original owners of CSX3145. They are pursuing a Loss of Use case. I prepared my appraisal last year and was deposed afterward. The adverse party's expert was also recently deposed. Their expert had the following notions that I will ask about for the umpteenth time. For those folks looking for some secret agenda or have a problem with my putting them in their place, why not just sit the rest of this discussion out? It has never been my intention to "eviscerate" people but when you are punched in the face for no good reason, most of us tend to punch back.

1) Regarding "historical significance", I am of the opinion that all of the 998 Cobras built fall into this category. That there is a Cobra registry accentuates that point. Is there anything to the notion that only raced Cobras have historical significance?

2) Are the non-raced 289 Cobras more desirable than the 427 Cobras?

3) The narrow-hip Cobras are rarer but are they typically less (or more) sought after?

I can't speak for others but that's enough "full disclosure" IMO. Your initial error in the assertion that Shelby actually raced in a small-block Cobra got some people smelling a rat, but to me that's just a common misconception among regular folks who are not Cobra enthusiasts. So - all the other stuff aside - did you get your answers to the questions above? In between the back and forth, I think they were pretty much addressed.

EDIT: just to conclude - here are the answers in a nutshell.

1) All Cobras are highly sought after collectible cars, but some; due to factors like racing pedigree, celebrity ownership or some other part of their history that sets them apart; are considered more "historically significant" than the regular cars.

2) No - not according to the historical market, but some enthusiasts absolutely do prefer the small-block cars.

3) This one is somewhat debatable - but generally speaking, an unmodified narrow hip street car will usually command a premium over a street roadster that has been modified to look like a comp or SC Cobra. Both will usually trade for less than a genuine, original comp or SC Cobra. Pedigree factors for example the two Supersnakes - one of which was built for Bill (the pill) Cosby or the Cobra that starred in Gumball Rally (1976) will trump the other factors - historical significance at work again.

[sunman]

No.
No.
Less.
I have a fake Ace just to be clear. Like Shelbys Cobra but the Gary Rutherford/Jeffry Davis “Classic 427” is a bigger version of the Ace.

[STLUCIE]

Originally Posted by Buzz

I can't speak for others but that's enough "full disclosure" IMO. Your initial error in the assertion that Shelby actually raced in a small-block Cobra got some people smelling a rat, but to me that's just a common misconception among regular folks who are not Cobra enthusiasts. So - all the other stuff aside - did you get your answers to the questions above? In between the back and forth, I think they were pretty much addressed.

Hi Buzz, There probably aren't definitive answers to these questions but I have gained much insight, here and elsewhere, into how collectors feel about Cobras. A raced 289 would have a little more prestige than CSX3145. A 427 is more desirable than a non-raced 289 and a narrow vs. wide hip car is a matter of preference. I also firmly believe that all Cobras are historically significant - not just those that appeared on racetracks.

[Buzz]

Sorry guys - I edited my previous post with answers and it came up after your posts.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

A raced 289 would have a little more prestige than CSX3145.

Yes, see my earlier response

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

A 427 is more desirable than a non-raced 289 and a narrow vs. wide hip car is a matter of preference.

100% correct, it is a matter of personal taste, a buyers money, spent the way they want to. Just as if they were shopping for a new car and deciding what color to choose.

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

I also firmly believe that all Cobras are historically significant - not just those that appeared on racetracks.

Well, yes, and no, the more "history" a car has, the more "historically significant" it is.

IE: A car driven hard and put away broken is less valuable than a car raced, wrecked, rebuilt, and raced again.

Or

A car owned by a well known movie star being more "historically significant" than a car owned by someone without such a heritage.


Bill S.

PS: I'm surprised you did not ask these same questions on the saacforum.com site, as they deal with originals on a daily basis.

[STLUCIE]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

PS: I'm surprised you did not ask these same questions on the saacforum.com site, as they deal with originals on a daily basis.

I did. You were gracious enough to answer it there, too.