A Cobra Valuation question

[STLUCIE]

Hello again, This is Franklin from St. Lucie Appraisal with another question or two. I am working on a Loss of Use appraisal. A couple of things were brought forth on which I would like to query the group.

1) I was told that, in order to be a historically significant car, the Cobra had to have been raced. My own opinion is that any car that has its own registry is historically significant but I may be technically wrong.

2) I was also told that the 289 Cobra is far more valuable than the 427 because that is the only one that Shelby ever drove in a race.

Thanking you in advance.

[1985 CCX]

Ok,

I'll go first....

A Cobra CSX2000 or CSX3000 is always historically significant. Racing adds to it however there is good racing and bad....

289 or 427 values vary as does their history. Say CSX2000 and CSX2345 are priceless and 2049 is a highly questionable car. A car like CSX3002 or CSX3009 are also a significant 427 car's so they would value higher than most street 289's.

Short answer is the specific car, the race history and drivers of that car, its originality and the condition is all in consideration for its valuation.
There is a fare amount of information as to selling prices available. Also a call to SAAC might aid in your favor.
If your client has a wire wheel 289 street car and says its a 289 and thus more valauble than say CSX3002, they are just overly excited.....
Each car has its own history.... 289 and 427....
You can always call as my # is below...

Let the games begin!

[twobjshelbys]

Anyone who owns an original and has an appraiser that has to come to a forum for information is way way under-represented. There are a few experts out there that really know the value and impact of damage on these cars and it's pretty obvious you are not one.

[Alfa02]

Jeff, I'd say you nailed it. If this is the same person he'd represented before, it's a sad story, told to me by a couple CSX 2000/3000 owners, the end results we be money, and nothing more, will not fix the heartache (again if the same story I heard). @STLUICE Just a FYI Shelby never raced a 289 or any Cobra, he was a retired racer by then. Cheers Tom.

[twobjshelbys]

Is this about that old topic:

1966 427 Cobra for rent?

???

That topic also was a CSX3000 loss of use but not from damage but from possession.

Seems there is a sordid story...

Why don't you be straight about what problem you are trying to solve? Over two years later.

[STLUCIE]

Thank you. And, to the other poster who tried to character-assassinate us, if you go to your doctor with chest pains, he'll have you consult with a cardiologist. Then, when you have urinary pain, he'll send you to a urologist. You'll discuss all of uyour various issues with one person - your primary physician. Our client has various issues and many of the "experts" out there don't know butt-crack about diminished value, loss of use (my last query to this group) and they would charge way more than we do to become learned. This forum has provided a wealth of knowledge that has served us well and all of you taking the time to respond is appreciated.

[STLUCIE]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Is this about that old topic:

1966 427 Cobra for rent?

???

That topic also was a CSX3000 loss of use but not from damage but from possession.

Seems there is a sordid story...

Why don't you be straight about what problem you are trying to solve? Over two years later.

Yes, that Loss of Use case is ongoing. However, I was asking about valuations of race-driven Cobras, 289s vs. 427s, etc. Answers to those two questions are a part of the bigger picture. So, how was I not being straight? Should I have repeated the whole Loss of Use scenario again, as well? How would my mentioning that affect how someone answered or shed light upon the two questions that I asked? No nefarious plans here, @twobjshelbys, just looking for answers from people who know a lot about this stuff. Put your badge and gun back in the drawer.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

Yes, that Loss of Use case is ongoing. However, I was asking about valuations of race-driven Cobras, 289s vs. 427s, etc. Answers to those two questions are a part of the bigger picture. So, how was I not being straight? Should I have repeated the whole Loss of Use scenario again, as well? How would my mentioning that affect how someone answered or shed light upon the two questions that I asked? No nefarious plans here, @twobjshelbys, just looking for answers from people who know a lot about this stuff. Put your badge and gun back in the drawer.

If the car is an original CSX2000 or CSX3000, with documented, 60’s period racing history, then yes, there could be a loss of value. Any at built after the originals were out of production are just replicas of the original and value would be that of a similar vehicle. You’ll have to be far more forthcoming with a specific chassis to be able to ascertain value, or loss of value. There is no magic ball here, each cars value is asked on that car’s documented history.

Bill S

[STLUCIE]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

If the car is an original CSX2000 or CSX3000, with documented, 60’s period racing history, then yes, there could be a loss of value. Any at built after the originals were out of production are just replicas of the original and value would be that of a similar vehicle. You’ll have to be far more forthcoming with a specific chassis to be able to ascertain value, or loss of value. There is no magic ball here, each cars value is asked on that car’s documented history.

Bill S

The car is CSX3145. My questions aren't really specific to this car or the loss of use matter, I just want to know, in general, are raced Cobras the only ones of historical significance and whether 289s are more desirable than 427s (because they were raced vs. 427s which were not?) Thank you, Bill.

[eschaider]

OP, when we get stuff that has an uninformed hyperbolic social media feel to it, such as Shelby driving one of these cars in competition when in fact he had retired from competition prior to the Cobra adventure, it sort of cools the perception of how genuine the inquiry might be.

As luck would have it, the last race Shelby competed in was the Third Annual Los Angeles Times-Mirror Grand Prix for sports cars December 3-4, 1960. The race and the date may not be that well known but Shelby's retirement before the birth of the Cobra is.

Beyond the obvious condition of the car, Jeff (1985 CCX) pretty much nailed it in terms of valuing the car. The one other consideration might be if the car were campaigned by a well known Shelby Team driver like Ken Miles, Bob Bondurant, Bill Krause or Dave McDonald to name a few. The provenance of being driven in competition by one of those drivers would certainly add to the value of the vehicle.

Of course my early condition comment falls flat on its face when confronted with the price one of the original Daytona Cobras brought after being locked up in darkness for decades.

In the end it is certainly obvious things like pedigree, but also the provenance of who drove it where and when. Away from the shop / team cars all the other Cobras essentially come down to restoration quality and possibly their CSX number.

[STLUCIE]

Originally Posted by eschaider

OP, when we get stuff that has an uninformed hyperbolic social media feel to it, such as Shelby driving one of these cars in competition when in fact he had retired from competition prior to the Cobra adventure, it sort of cools the perception of how genuine the inquiry might be.

As luck would have it, the last race Shelby competed in was the Third Annual Los Angeles Times-Mirror Grand Prix for sports cars December 3-4, 1960. The race and the date may not be that well known but Shelby's retirement before the birth of the Cobra is.

Beyond the obvious condition of the car, Jeff (1985 CCX) pretty much nailed it in terms of valuing the car. The one other consideration might be if the car were campaigned by a well known Shelby Team driver like Ken Miles, Bob Bondurant, Bill Krause or Dave McDonald to name a few. The provenance of being driven in competition by one of those drivers would certainly add to the value of the vehicle.

Of course my early condition comment falls flat on its face when confronted with the price one of the original Daytona Cobras brought after being locked up in darkness for decades.

In the end it is certainly obvious things like pedigree, but also the provenance of who drove it where and when. Away from the shop / team cars all the other Cobras essentially come down to restoration quality and possibly their CSX number.

A car driven by a noted Shelby team member lends additional value on its face. My question still is whether all Cobras are "historically significant" or just those that were raced?

Also, any truth to the 289 cars being more desirable than the 427 cars?

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by STLUCIE

A car driven by a noted Shelby team member lends additional value on its face. My question still is whether all Cobras are "historically significant" or just those that were raced?

Also, any truth to the 289 cars being more desirable than the 427 cars?

All original Cobra's are historically significant as is evidenced by the sale prices they command. There can be some excellent replicas but they are in fact replicas. That doesn't mean they will not make an excellent car to drive around today. In fact many replicas are better driving cars than the originals just because of the advances in things like brakes, tires and suspensions.

Like in women, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. There are those of us who are head over heels in love with the 289 generation of cars and then there are others that would not have anything but a 427 body style. The biases for engine are equally broad, so I would not say one is more desireable than the other across the board. Again beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[DanEC]

Maybe there should be historically significant and extra historically significant?

[Ron61]

Just my two cents worth but one of your statements is wrong. (The car is CSX3145. My questions aren't really specific to this car or the loss of use matter, I just want to know, in general, are raced Cobras the only ones of historical significance and whether 289s are more desirable than 427s (because they were raced vs. 427s which were not) See the Essex Wire Companies record of winning races with their 427 Cobra.

And all original Cobras are worth a lot and the amount will depend on condition and how original they still are, plus racing history and who drove them. For instance a Cobra driven by Ken Miles and winning a race is going to normally bring more than one driven by some basically unknown driver who won some races.

Ron

[1985 CCX]

The car is CSX3145. My questions aren't really specific to this car or the loss of use matter, I just want to know, in general, are raced Cobras the only ones of historical significance and whether 289s are more desirable than 427s (because they were raced vs. 427s which were not?) Thank you, Bill

No!
Personal preference, the car itself as it all matters. Yes all are "significant" that is why they are so much $$$$$, that is also why they are so replicated.....

[STLUCIE]

I also want to make mention of "a notion by experts" that the bodies of many narrow hip Cobras such as CSX3145 were altered to turn them into wide hip versions. The idea is supposedly that wide hip Cobras are more desirable than narrow. Any opinions, group?

[Blue66]

I changed one back in the mid 70's. I believe the car still has them. The original went to a CSX32** car that was rebuilt.

[hauss]

Just got done reading all the comments and can"t stop my head from spinning . Now I am wondering is anyone else feeling the same?

[STLUCIE]

Originally Posted by Blue66

I changed one back in the mid 70's. I believe the car still has them. The original went to a CSX32** car that was rebuilt.

What is your feeling about wide being a more desirable body than narrow? Preference-wise? Value-wise?

Thank you for your help, @blue66.

[1985 CCX]

In general narrow is a lower production number offering so ... Yup
Still its the car itself nothing to do with other cars. That is how Cobra's are judged.