"The Black Ghost" SCAM ???

[Alfa02]

First this has nothing to do with Cobras, but it does have to do with Collector cars (Value, Auctions). I'm only writing this to get other members opinion. Never heard of this "Black Ghost" or this "Uncle Tony" till today, but if this story is true, it could make the whole collector car crowd sit-up and take notice. Watch the full 18mins, and then tell us your opinion, I'm interested in what you guys think. (Only my opinion) but I always thought the Mechum Auction's were more like "Carnival Barkers" then say Goodings, RM, and the like. Cheers Tom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2LjOvcnBFU.

[CowtownCobra]

Wow, what a SCAM

[Sawdust]

How would you feel is you were the one that just bought that Challenger for a million!!!

[Tommy]

I'm reminded of the auction when the first of the Mustang Eleanor's (by the company that was later shut down for illegal activities) sold for something like $450K. I was stunned that anyone would pay that much for a replica of a movie car that was going to be replicated many additional times. Then it hit me. Commissions from the buyer and seller totaled 20% or $90K. The seller only needed to have a shill bidder run it up until they bought the car back from themselves. If they did that they'd have at least $90k of advertising and they could tell every other prospective buyer that the market value of their replicas was set at auction at $450K, or about $300K more than I thought the car was worth at that time. . . I don't know if that is what happened, but it sure sounds reasonable to me. . . . Some of these sales are about more than egos and who has the most money.

[DanEC]

There was a lot of media hype about it several years ago. Thinking back it did seem a bit like a trial trailer for a future TV show or movie.

[Joey.S]

I think it's all a scam can't believe how Hagerty actually wrote articles and did a video on this car, shame on Hagerty!!. I would of never fell for it. just my opinion.

Joey.S

[1985 CCX]

When cars hit seven figures and auction houses are involved stories are the driver for sale prices. is this a true story, I dont know?

When selling these cars a story can add lots of $$$.
Could this be the "Black Ghost"? Maybe......
Let me add, maybe the car was never a street racer at all, just maybe as the car was seen driving around it was another fable made up by the fact its a Hemi Challenger?
Maybe that is why it was a ghost, maybe it never actually did anything at all except drive around Wooodward and the fabled Hemi Car was just that, a fable??


Booo

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by Joey.S

I think it's all a scam can't believe how Hagerty actually wrote articles and did a video on this car, shame on Hagerty!!. I would of never fell for it. just my opinion.

Joey.S

If the recent owner ran the video / publicity business as described in the OP's video link, what makes us think any videos from any source did not originate with him?

[eschaider]

I believe the story as told by Uncle Tony!

I think there are multiple perps (I like that word even though it may not be correct), some driving up the sale price of the car, some auction-related, some movie promotion related, and some new car sales related.

I doubt this is an organized, broad-based, well-oiled scam effort. I think it is more like a number of people associated with different corporate entities that all recognized an opportunity, at close to the same time, and in an opportunistic but uncoordinated sort of fashion, all cashed in on the story, albeit in different ways.

Snake oil sales may be down these days, but The Snake Oil Salesman genera is still very much alive and kicking. This story is an excellent example — and in time, the truth will be completely obscured, with only the story remaining ...

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Hi,
I think there are a number of rich guys that scheme to buy cars and sell them in a couple years for higher prices. They do not pay taxes on the difference. So say they buy it for $400,000 and sell for $550,000. they have a $150000 profit and do not pay capital gains on it. The bad thing is the average guy is outpriced from a cool car.
perry

[twobjshelbys]

1. Everyone wants to think that auctions are rigged and that the seller has shill bidders arranged by the seller or that the auction house is "in on it". Yet after two decades of watching Barrett Jackson and Mecum on cars that went for screwy money (either high or low) there has been no proof of those allegations. People are absolutely the worst secret keepers. If such collusion were really happening you'd have heard about it by now. There are a few "a friend of a cousin that knows someone that saw the auction is absolutely positive that George and Sam ran up the bid" but in no circumstance has an individual supposedly directly involved ever admitted it. So this remains an old wives tale.

The only auction shenanigans I am aware of happened at Barrett Jackson when someone was selling a Bugatti Veyron. The final bidder got the car for an absurdly low price. I was in Craig's sky box when having not been on the podium at the time came on and said that the bidder "lied" - he didn't have the money, was caught in the moment, and figured he'd get outbidded and was summarily evicted for life. Craig re-opened the auction with the previous bidder having first dibs but he rejected resuming the bidding and Craig ended up buying the car personally for the shill's bid. It still shows up at the Scottsdale auction with a BJ wrap on it - it's a "company car" and written off

2. Eleanors get screwy money. Just look at the last few that went at Barrett Jackson (I think there were 3 or 4). Now that they are "legitimate" (business wise, of course they're a copy of nothing) the reluctance to put them out there is gone and they still get top dollar. There's no logic behind it except that they are cool looking.

3. According to the feds capital gains ARE due on profit of auto sales (as they are due on art works - if you find a rare bowl for $5 at a garage sale and sell it for $5M, you owe capital gains.) Sell a car for a profit, you owe capital gains (but they depreciate like a rock and you don't get a deduction, unless you're a business.) Maybe some of Biden's 80,000 armed investigators can track down some and audit them.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter

Hi,
I think there are a number of rich guys that scheme to buy cars and sell them in a couple years for higher prices. They do not pay taxes on the difference. So say they buy it for $400,000 and sell for $550,000. they have a $150000 profit and do not pay capital gains on it. The bad thing is the average guy is outpriced from a cool car.
perry

The strategy fails often enough. When I sent my Ford GT to BJ they really thought it would be a 400+K car. It was the last auction they entertained reserve and I'd asked for it but in a conference call with Steve and my rep they were convinced it would get over my reserve as it was the only Heritage at the auction. They promoted the hell out of it - lots of press featured it first in the articles and press releases and the car made the cover of the auction catalog. The car was in a string of other cars that did go for their expected number or higher. (By now, they are really good at estimating the prices.) I can't fault BJ for promoting it.

Anyway, mine went for 290K - 160K under estimate. No logical reason. One remote bidder and one guy in Craig's skybox were the remaining after the people that think it was a 10K car.

The buyer shipped it to the Mecum auction in Florida a few weeks later. It didn't sell for much more. Now "regulars" at Mecum do get a break on the commission and since the buyer at BJ was in Craig's skybox, he might have gotten a break on the buyer's commission. But if the seller had to pay full commissions on both BJ purchase and Mecum sale, he lost money. If he didn't pay any on either end he might have made 20K.

The lesson is that auctions are a crap shoot...

Also, a lesson was had when Carroll's Supersnake was sold. The first time it was bought by Ron Pratte for 5M. When Pratte liquidated his collection it sold for $5M.

[Alfa02]

Just as I thought Gentlemen, the whole thing is a SCAM ! The one comment "Uncle Tony" made that stuck out in my mind, was, the son never heard ANY Stories from his father, only from (Other People) Hummm..... setting himself up not to be sued, later down the road when/if this whole thing blows up in their faces?? Claims it's only hearsay. I think they ALL were involved (auction house, son, and God knows who else) I would wager, there was a shill, that brought the car (On Paper), then after the "Movie" comes out, they sell it for Millions more!! And then reproductions are built (Sound Familiar?) My hope is everyone gets busted over this BS. P.S. I've watched a couple more video from Uncle Tony, I like his Doesn't pull any punches. Tell's it like it is, with facts. The guy knows his Mopar's. Let's hear more on this, Cheers Tom.

[twobjshelbys]

I gave up on the video. Too much talking, not enough content. Probably could have said what he wanted to say in 5 minutes and kept my attention. What's the punch line

[Alfa02]

The Punch line Tony, is this Uncle Tony, had seen this car 3 years before it GREW its story, he stated facts about it. The Owner (Son) has "Just Stories" that make no sense, and nothing to back it up. Go back and see what this gentleman (Son) does for a living, that may just tip you off, Cheers Tony, Tom.

[patrickt]

It was a "replica" of a ghost. The older I get the less and less distinction I see between real and fake. If you want to believe it's real, then it's real.

[twobjshelbys]

The Mecum listing

https://www.mecum.com/lots/554000/19...e-black-ghost/

displays a fair amount of pedigree including a registration in the Historic Vehicle Association (this car is #28, #1 is Daytona Coupe CSX2287) and an 82 page report on its pedigree. It seems it would be difficult to perpetuate a fraud over such a long period of time and over so many people...

We all know the old saying "I saw it on the internet so it must be true" really means it's a lie. I choose to trust Mecum, and the historic registry more than some dude on a Youtube video. If it was really true, his video has baked long enough to garner lots of national press... Nowhere to be seen.

[patrickt]

Well I do like the Gator Grain top.

[HTM101]

Deleted my comments.

[eschaider]

I think we need more government control ...