Club Cobra Gas - N Exhaust  

Go Back   Club Cobra > Cobra Talk Areas > ALL COBRA TALK

MMG Superformance
Nevada Classics
Main Menu
Module Jump:
Nevada Classics
Nevada Classics
Keith Craft Racing
Keith Craft Racing
Advertise at CC
Banner Ad Rates
MMG Superformance
MMG Superformance
MMG Superformance
December 2024
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31        

Kirkham Motorsports

Like Tree48Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 01:05 AM
Alfa02's Avatar
CC Member/Contributor
Visit my Photo Gallery
Gold Star Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: (Beautiful) Sequim, WA
Cobra Make, Engine: Pacific Roadster, 347 cu.in. 5-speed
Posts: 2,001
Not Ranked     
Default "The Black Ghost" SCAM ???

First this has nothing to do with Cobras, but it does have to do with Collector cars (Value, Auctions). I'm only writing this to get other members opinion. Never heard of this "Black Ghost" or this "Uncle Tony" till today, but if this story is true, it could make the whole collector car crowd sit-up and take notice. Watch the full 18mins, and then tell us your opinion, I'm interested in what you guys think. (Only my opinion) but I always thought the Mechum Auction's were more like "Carnival Barkers" then say Goodings, RM, and the like. Cheers Tom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2LjOvcnBFU.
1985 CCX likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 01:29 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,313
Send a message via MSN to CowtownCobra
Not Ranked     
Default

Wow, what a SCAM
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 04:56 AM
Sawdust's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: North of Toronto, Ont
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance #1950, Roush 402R, TKO600
Posts: 552
Not Ranked     
Default

How would you feel is you were the one that just bought that Challenger for a million!!!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 05:28 AM
Tommy's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dadeville, AL
Cobra Make, Engine: Sold my EM.
Posts: 2,459
Not Ranked     
Default

I'm reminded of the auction when the first of the Mustang Eleanor's (by the company that was later shut down for illegal activities) sold for something like $450K. I was stunned that anyone would pay that much for a replica of a movie car that was going to be replicated many additional times. Then it hit me. Commissions from the buyer and seller totaled 20% or $90K. The seller only needed to have a shill bidder run it up until they bought the car back from themselves. If they did that they'd have at least $90k of advertising and they could tell every other prospective buyer that the market value of their replicas was set at auction at $450K, or about $300K more than I thought the car was worth at that time. . . I don't know if that is what happened, but it sure sounds reasonable to me. . . . Some of these sales are about more than egos and who has the most money.
__________________
Tommy
Cheetah tribute completed 2021 (TommysCars.Weebly.com)
Previously owned EM Cobra
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 06:06 AM
DanEC's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Little Rock area, AR
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA Street Roadster #782 with 459 cu in FE KC engine, toploader, 3.31
Posts: 4,521
Not Ranked     
Default

There was a lot of media hype about it several years ago. Thinking back it did seem a bit like a trial trailer for a future TV show or movie.
Alfa02 likes this.
__________________
ERA 782 Running
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfge...b1-77fqwFRu7c]
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 06:13 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SEVERN, Ont
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 103
Not Ranked     
Default

I think it's all a scam can't believe how Hagerty actually wrote articles and did a video on this car, shame on Hagerty!!. I would of never fell for it. just my opinion.

Joey.S
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 08:15 AM
1985 CCX's Avatar
Senior Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Manchester, NH
Cobra Make, Engine: AK1085 (302 Street), HTM111 (427 Comp), CSX2375R (289 Comp) and COB5999 (427 S/C)
Posts: 19,011
Not Ranked     
Default

When cars hit seven figures and auction houses are involved stories are the driver for sale prices. is this a true story, I dont know?

When selling these cars a story can add lots of $$$.
Could this be the "Black Ghost"? Maybe......
Let me add, maybe the car was never a street racer at all, just maybe as the car was seen driving around it was another fable made up by the fact its a Hemi Challenger?
Maybe that is why it was a ghost, maybe it never actually did anything at all except drive around Wooodward and the fabled Hemi Car was just that, a fable??


Booo
Alfa02 likes this.

Last edited by 1985 CCX; 05-22-2023 at 08:55 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 11:04 AM
Tommy's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dadeville, AL
Cobra Make, Engine: Sold my EM.
Posts: 2,459
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey.S View Post
I think it's all a scam can't believe how Hagerty actually wrote articles and did a video on this car, shame on Hagerty!!. I would of never fell for it. just my opinion.

Joey.S
If the recent owner ran the video / publicity business as described in the OP's video link, what makes us think any videos from any source did not originate with him?
__________________
Tommy
Cheetah tribute completed 2021 (TommysCars.Weebly.com)
Previously owned EM Cobra
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 11:12 AM
eschaider's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Gilroy, CA
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF 2291, Whipple Blown & Injected 4V ModMotor
Posts: 2,726
Not Ranked     
Default

I believe the story as told by Uncle Tony!

I think there are multiple perps (I like that word even though it may not be correct), some driving up the sale price of the car, some auction-related, some movie promotion related, and some new car sales related.

I doubt this is an organized, broad-based, well-oiled scam effort. I think it is more like a number of people associated with different corporate entities that all recognized an opportunity, at close to the same time, and in an opportunistic but uncoordinated sort of fashion, all cashed in on the story, albeit in different ways.

Snake oil sales may be down these days, but The Snake Oil Salesman genera is still very much alive and kicking. This story is an excellent example — and in time, the truth will be completely obscured, with only the story remaining ...
twobjshelbys and Alfa02 like this.
__________________


Help them do what they would have done if they had known what they could do.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 11:39 AM
HighPlainsDrifter's Avatar
Senior Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Chilliwack,BC, BC
Cobra Make, Engine: F5 Roadster
Posts: 1,422
Not Ranked     
Default tax scam

Hi,
I think there are a number of rich guys that scheme to buy cars and sell them in a couple years for higher prices. They do not pay taxes on the difference. So say they buy it for $400,000 and sell for $550,000. they have a $150000 profit and do not pay capital gains on it. The bad thing is the average guy is outpriced from a cool car.
perry
__________________
F5 cobra Mark 4 roadster, **SOLD** Ruby Wine Red with pearl,
dual 2" roll bars, warmed up 302, Edelbrock AVS carb and heads, E Street aluminum Heads, Comp cam and roller rockers, AOD, 4.10 Eaton Posi, Power Baer/disc brakes, block hugger headers, 2 1/2" under car exhaust, F500 18" black spoke wheels.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 12:11 PM
twobjshelbys's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby CSX4005LA, Roush 427IR
Posts: 5,585
Not Ranked     
Default

1. Everyone wants to think that auctions are rigged and that the seller has shill bidders arranged by the seller or that the auction house is "in on it". Yet after two decades of watching Barrett Jackson and Mecum on cars that went for screwy money (either high or low) there has been no proof of those allegations. People are absolutely the worst secret keepers. If such collusion were really happening you'd have heard about it by now. There are a few "a friend of a cousin that knows someone that saw the auction is absolutely positive that George and Sam ran up the bid" but in no circumstance has an individual supposedly directly involved ever admitted it. So this remains an old wives tale.

The only auction shenanigans I am aware of happened at Barrett Jackson when someone was selling a Bugatti Veyron. The final bidder got the car for an absurdly low price. I was in Craig's sky box when having not been on the podium at the time came on and said that the bidder "lied" - he didn't have the money, was caught in the moment, and figured he'd get outbidded and was summarily evicted for life. Craig re-opened the auction with the previous bidder having first dibs but he rejected resuming the bidding and Craig ended up buying the car personally for the shill's bid. It still shows up at the Scottsdale auction with a BJ wrap on it - it's a "company car" and written off

2. Eleanors get screwy money. Just look at the last few that went at Barrett Jackson (I think there were 3 or 4). Now that they are "legitimate" (business wise, of course they're a copy of nothing) the reluctance to put them out there is gone and they still get top dollar. There's no logic behind it except that they are cool looking.

3. According to the feds capital gains ARE due on profit of auto sales (as they are due on art works - if you find a rare bowl for $5 at a garage sale and sell it for $5M, you owe capital gains.) Sell a car for a profit, you owe capital gains (but they depreciate like a rock and you don't get a deduction, unless you're a business.) Maybe some of Biden's 80,000 armed investigators can track down some and audit them.
eschaider and Ozzie Goat like this.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony
CSX4005LA
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 12:25 PM
twobjshelbys's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby CSX4005LA, Roush 427IR
Posts: 5,585
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter View Post
Hi,
I think there are a number of rich guys that scheme to buy cars and sell them in a couple years for higher prices. They do not pay taxes on the difference. So say they buy it for $400,000 and sell for $550,000. they have a $150000 profit and do not pay capital gains on it. The bad thing is the average guy is outpriced from a cool car.
perry
The strategy fails often enough. When I sent my Ford GT to BJ they really thought it would be a 400+K car. It was the last auction they entertained reserve and I'd asked for it but in a conference call with Steve and my rep they were convinced it would get over my reserve as it was the only Heritage at the auction. They promoted the hell out of it - lots of press featured it first in the articles and press releases and the car made the cover of the auction catalog. The car was in a string of other cars that did go for their expected number or higher. (By now, they are really good at estimating the prices.) I can't fault BJ for promoting it.

Anyway, mine went for 290K - 160K under estimate. No logical reason. One remote bidder and one guy in Craig's skybox were the remaining after the people that think it was a 10K car.

The buyer shipped it to the Mecum auction in Florida a few weeks later. It didn't sell for much more. Now "regulars" at Mecum do get a break on the commission and since the buyer at BJ was in Craig's skybox, he might have gotten a break on the buyer's commission. But if the seller had to pay full commissions on both BJ purchase and Mecum sale, he lost money. If he didn't pay any on either end he might have made 20K.

The lesson is that auctions are a crap shoot...

Also, a lesson was had when Carroll's Supersnake was sold. The first time it was bought by Ron Pratte for 5M. When Pratte liquidated his collection it sold for $5M.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony
CSX4005LA
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 12:29 PM
Alfa02's Avatar
CC Member/Contributor
Visit my Photo Gallery
Gold Star Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: (Beautiful) Sequim, WA
Cobra Make, Engine: Pacific Roadster, 347 cu.in. 5-speed
Posts: 2,001
Not Ranked     
Default

Just as I thought Gentlemen, the whole thing is a SCAM ! The one comment "Uncle Tony" made that stuck out in my mind, was, the son never heard ANY Stories from his father, only from (Other People) Hummm..... setting himself up not to be sued, later down the road when/if this whole thing blows up in their faces?? Claims it's only hearsay. I think they ALL were involved (auction house, son, and God knows who else) I would wager, there was a shill, that brought the car (On Paper), then after the "Movie" comes out, they sell it for Millions more!! And then reproductions are built (Sound Familiar?) My hope is everyone gets busted over this BS. P.S. I've watched a couple more video from Uncle Tony, I like his Doesn't pull any punches. Tell's it like it is, with facts. The guy knows his Mopar's. Let's hear more on this, Cheers Tom.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 12:29 PM
twobjshelbys's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby CSX4005LA, Roush 427IR
Posts: 5,585
Not Ranked     
Default

I gave up on the video. Too much talking, not enough content. Probably could have said what he wanted to say in 5 minutes and kept my attention. What's the punch line
joyridin' likes this.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony
CSX4005LA
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 12:53 PM
Alfa02's Avatar
CC Member/Contributor
Visit my Photo Gallery
Gold Star Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: (Beautiful) Sequim, WA
Cobra Make, Engine: Pacific Roadster, 347 cu.in. 5-speed
Posts: 2,001
Not Ranked     
Default

The Punch line Tony, is this Uncle Tony, had seen this car 3 years before it GREW its story, he stated facts about it. The Owner (Son) has "Just Stories" that make no sense, and nothing to back it up. Go back and see what this gentleman (Son) does for a living, that may just tip you off, Cheers Tony, Tom.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 01:31 PM
patrickt's Avatar
Half-Ass Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,005
Not Ranked     
Default

It was a "replica" of a ghost. The older I get the less and less distinction I see between real and fake. If you want to believe it's real, then it's real.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 02:14 PM
twobjshelbys's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby CSX4005LA, Roush 427IR
Posts: 5,585
Not Ranked     
Default

The Mecum listing

https://www.mecum.com/lots/554000/19...e-black-ghost/

displays a fair amount of pedigree including a registration in the Historic Vehicle Association (this car is #28, #1 is Daytona Coupe CSX2287) and an 82 page report on its pedigree. It seems it would be difficult to perpetuate a fraud over such a long period of time and over so many people...

We all know the old saying "I saw it on the internet so it must be true" really means it's a lie. I choose to trust Mecum, and the historic registry more than some dude on a Youtube video. If it was really true, his video has baked long enough to garner lots of national press... Nowhere to be seen.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony
CSX4005LA

Last edited by twobjshelbys; 05-22-2023 at 02:18 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 02:17 PM
patrickt's Avatar
Half-Ass Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,005
Not Ranked     
Default

Well I do like the Gator Grain top.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 04:12 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 171
Not Ranked     
Default

Deleted my comments.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2023, 05:08 PM
eschaider's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Gilroy, CA
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF 2291, Whipple Blown & Injected 4V ModMotor
Posts: 2,726
Not Ranked     
Default

I think we need more government control ...
JTMCOBRA likes this.
__________________


Help them do what they would have done if they had known what they could do.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the clubcobra.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Shelby American, any other replica manufacturer, Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by clubcobra.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Ford Motor Company, or Shelby American or any other manufacturer unless expressly noted by that entity. "Cobra" and the Cobra logo are registered trademarks for Ford Motor Co., Inc. clubcobra.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting clubcobra.com. For full policy documentation refer to the following link: CC Policy
Links monetized by VigLink