This is Why I Don't Change My Oil

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Tommy

It'll be a while before I do that again.

Follow patrickt's advice or send your oil off to Blackstone?

[65snake]

Patrickt 65 years ago my dad (who owned a garage and started my career as a gear head) told me that he sold the old used oil back to a few oil companies. He said they refined it and use it in installations that needed finer oil. Never thought about it again. I also attended a class on rebuilding Solar Turbines which used Mobile 1 oil and ran at 20,000 RPM. Also didn't change oil, but sent samples to lab. They would tell us when to replace oil or any part that should be replaced (mostly bearings since not many moving parts).

[65snake]

About 60 years ago my dad told me that he sold old oil back to some of the oil companies. He said they would refine it and would come out with a product that was used where a finer grade of oil was needed. Never thought about it until Patrick mentioned old oil being reused. Dad owned a Mobil station from right after WW2 until he passed i 1987. If I broke it he made me fix it. That's how I learned to wrench.

[65snake]

About 60 years ago my dad told me that he sold old oil back to some of the oil companies. He said they would refine it and would come out with a product that was used where a finer grade of oil was needed. Never thought about it until Patrick mentioned old oil being reused. Dad owned a Mobil station from right after WW2 until he passed i 1987. If I broke it he made me fix it. That's how I learned to wrench.

[Godabitibi]

Here is another way of looking at it.
A friend of mine had a super nice Pantera that he drove only once in a while for small ride in town and park to chat with friends. He would then go back home and park it in the garage until the next little ride.
I asked him once, when did you changed your oil ? And his answer was there is no need it's still like new.
He pulled the dipstick and showed me how clean the oil was. And I told him clean doesn't mean it still good.
Oil oxydize over time when exposed to heat and moisture.
When used only on short rides as he was doing there is no time for moisture to evaporate.
Moisture and and temperature change without high heat help oxydation to get worse and makes a good environment to make acids.

When oil start to become acidic it then start to corrode metal.
Hydrocarbons can also developped bacterias. These bacterias can also make problems in gasoline over time.

That friend not using his car enough had a problem with gas and we had to remove the gas tank. In these cars you have to remove the engine to get the tank out. So we removed the engine.
While at it he said maybe we can have a look at the motor. So I pulled the oil pan to look inside.
When I removed the first bearing cap I spotted a darker spot on the crank journal. I asked him to bring a magnifier to look closer and showed him what the darker spot was.
I showed him it was corrosion pitting in the crank material due to acid in it's NICE LOOKING oil color.

I then told him this is in a place where there is no AIR in contact with the metal, now lets have a look at the top of the motor in the lifter galley where tnere is a lot of AIR IN CONTACT WITH METAL.

The botton of the lifters were SO CORRODED that they were like 80 or 40 grit sandpaper.

Oil change is a CHEAP maintenance. When you drain it you expell a lot of dirt and other chemicals.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Godabitibi

Here is another way of looking at it.
A friend of mine had a super nice Pantera that he drove only once in a while for small ride in town and park to chat with friends. He would then go back home and park it in the garage until the next little ride.
I asked him once, when did you changed your oil ? And his answer was there is no need it's still like new.
He pulled the dipstick and showed me how clean the oil was. And I told him clean doesn't mean it still good.
Oil oxydize over time when exposed to heat and moisture.
When used only on short rides as he was doing there is no time for moisture to evaporate.
Moisture and and temperature change without high heat help oxydation to get worse and makes a good environment to make acids.

When oil start to become acidic it then start to corrode metal.
Hydrocarbons can also developped bacterias. These bacterias can also make problems in gasoline over time.

That friend not using his car enough had a problem with gas and we had to remove the gas tank. In these cars you have to remove the engine to get the tank out. So we removed the engine.
While at it he said maybe we can have a look at the motor. So I pulled the oil pan to look inside.
When I removed the first bearing cap I spotted a darker spot on the crank journal. I asked him to bring a magnifier to look closer and showed him what the darker spot was.
I showed him it was corrosion pitting in the crank material due to acid in it's NICE LOOKING oil color.

I then told him this is in a place where there is no AIR in contact with the metal, now lets have a look at the top of the motor in the lifter galley where tnere is a lot of AIR IN CONTACT WITH METAL.

The botton of the lifters were SO CORRODED that they were like 80 or 40 grit sandpaper.

Oil change is a CHEAP maintenance. When you drain it you expell a lot of dirt and other chemicals.

This also speaks to the importance of running the engine periodically at full operating temperature. All engines suffer from the 1 mile little old lady trips to the grocery store. That's the reason we change the oil in our Honda at 3000 - 5000 miles.

[eschaider]

I once went almost 400,000 miles on a 1977 Mk IV. I would periodically add a quart. The worst that happened was the oil filter rusted out somewhere around 300,000 miles — New England winters. I had to add more than 1 quart that time. No exhaust smoke and decent mileage for a 460 4BBL ...

[twobjshelbys]

The engine on my power washer says never change the oil just add...

[Alfa02]

Now Ed, I believe I know you well enough to know you would never ever let anything get that kind of treatment. I may have to call BS
Today I did change oil on the Cobra (1100miles last year) don't care if it's the right thing to do or not "I Feel Better." Put a wench and or socket on all suspension, drivetrain, etc. I'm ready for this year drives Quick up-date: We (Brent (EM-0785) & I sold the marron West Coast Cobra, really nice guy here in the PNW, he owns a Honda S-2000, and have drag raced 10-11sec. Drag cars, he knows to dance slowly with the Cobra, a welcome addition to our NW group, Cheers Tom.

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by Alfa02

Now Ed, I believe I know you well enough to know you would never ever let anything get that kind of treatment. I may have to call BS ... Cheers Tom.

I actually did, Tom. I know it sounds incredible. Back in those days I typically drove about 40K miles per year just for business. At the time, I calculated the cost of the recommended oil changes and the cost of rebuilding the engine (if I did it).

It was cheaper to rebuild the engine than do the oil changes — especially true at Lincoln Delaer prices. So I rolled the dice essentially on a lark to see what would happen. As luck would have it, I eventually sold the car with the original engine still in it!

I don't drive those distances any longer (especially at current CA gas prices). Moreover, I suspect modern aluminum engines would not fare as well as a cast iron 460 under those conditions.


Postscript

Actually that may not be true ...

The follow-on vehicle was a 528i BMW that went just about as far (378,000 miles), but I did do oil changes because I did not want to tackle a BMW engine rebuild.

[hauss]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Well I agree with that. I don't do it on my regular cars either. If the engine seized up on one of them I'd use it as an excuse to buy a new car.

Now I know why you do not change your oil. You are saving for a new car. I would like to see your new oil, compared to you used oil, test results .That would be better .

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by hauss

Now I know why you do not change your oil. You are saving for a new car. I would like to see your new oil, compared to you used oil, test results .That would be better .

This was a VOA of Brad Penn that I had performed back in 2007. I recall that sometime after that there was some discussion that Blackstone was not measuring Zinc/Phos correctly for several manufacturers of oil (this was when the cam lobe failures were going on), of which BP was one, and those numbers went up across the board for several manufacturers. BP has always stated in their literature that their Zinc/Phos numbers were and are, as I recall, closer to the 1500 mark. Regardless, I always add a bottle of the original GM EOS. GM changed their formula maybe 15 years ago but I have a couple of cases of the original stuff. That is why in my UOA you will see my Zinc/Phos numbers a bit higher along with some of the detergent numbers. My used oil analysis from last year, which was four year old oil, was in the very first post of this thread.

[hauss]

What I meant ,was the test of the new oil that went in the motor and the same oil, that came out after, it was used.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by hauss

What I meant ,was the test of the new oil that went in the motor and the same oil, that came out after, it was used.

Yes. I progressively test the same oil until I finally change it, this time around six years. If there is no appreciable change in wear metals, and there is no presence of water or antifreeze, and the other characteristics of the oil, such as viscosity or the TBN number, are in line, along with mileage, then what would I be changing? I would be changing good healthy oil for more good healthy oil. But if I did not test the oil, and just changed it, then I could be changing bad oil for good oil and masking a problem that I could prevent from causing serious problems if I just opened my eyes and looked at the test. That "feeling of comfort" that others take from oft changing their oil on a rarely driven car is really just fooling themselves. They would take a greater level of comfort from reading a detailed test on their oil and knowing exactly what they were dealing with. But, that takes turning on your brain and thinking, which some people just have trouble doing.

[Morris]

Patrick
I agree 100% with you and in fact, have been using Blackstone for many years on all of my vehicles…..i even have customers when they buy another used car, they want me to take a sample and send it in…
We have also used Blackstone for the Race cars and the Cobra….you can’t know to much about your engine….the more data the better.

[patrickt]

The old joke is that FEs leak. They leak oil, they leak coolant, they leak gas -- yeah, the joke is true, for the most part. It's taken me 20 years to get my Cobra to the point where I would say she really doesn't leak anymore. But I still get down on all fours and peek under her with a flashlight every week, even during the winter months when she doesn't move. Because, she has been known to spring a leak while sitting in her heated garage in the middle of February. No brown oil, no green coolant, no blue brake or clutch fluid, no red transmission drips, no Moroso climbing lube drips, and no golden gas puddles -- that one I usually smell before I even start to look. When I see nothing but dry cement floor under her it's a blessing.

More than once, I've looked down at the garage floor only to see drips of red blood. Usually it was the result of slicing a finger or arm up and never even knowing it. No big deal, just look around, see where you're bleeding from and just bandage it up. That's the nice thing about external leaks, whether they're from you or your Cobra, they're pretty easy to spot. Internal leaks, not so much. I don't know of any easier way to check for internal leaks in an FE equipped Cobra than an oil test. And dumping gas, coolant or water in to your oil is pretty high on the shi* list with FEs or any other engine for that matter. Why you wouldn't test for that is just something I can't even fathom and why anyone would even argue against it with our lightly driven, and sometimes very expensive, Cobras and their engines is just beyond me.

[kevins2]

Hey Patrick,

I just ordered an oil sample test kit from Blackstone for the first time. Quick question - are all the results you've posted included in their standard test? They offer a lot of additional tests but I haven't read up on them. Thought I'd be lazy and just ask you

Kevin

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by kevins2

Hey Patrick,

I just ordered an oil sample test kit from Blackstone for the first time. Quick question - are all the results you've posted included in their standard test? They offer a lot of additional tests but I haven't read up on them. Thought I'd be lazy and just ask you

Kevin

I get their standard test plus $10 extra for a TBN (total base number). You can look up the specs on your particular oil for the TBN of new oil and compare to that.

[Godabitibi]

All the test you show talk about miles. Nothing over a long period of TIME.
What are your TBN results ?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Godabitibi

All the test you show talk about miles. Nothing over a long period of TIME.
What are your TBN results ?

In my first post you can see the TBN is 8.7 -- virgin Brad Penn has a TBN of 10.6 and the time element is four years.